AC doesnt work, recharge failed
08-21-2012, 12:48 PM
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AC doesnt work, recharge failed
So my friend tried to recharge my AC today because he has the gauge/hose setup and did his own last week. At first the clutch wouldn't engage til we bypassed it with a wire, then it took a little but the gauge was buried so we stopped. How could it not work but not take any freon? The clutch never came on despite toggling the AC on and off and running the fans full blast.
08-21-2012, 01:11 PM
#2
Honda-Tech Member
Re: AC doesnt work, recharge failed
There is probably a problem with the clutch or stator/coil or both. It could just be the clutch clearance is too much, and you just need to take a shim or two out.
08-21-2012, 04:00 PM
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Re: AC doesnt work, recharge failed
Would a bad compressor/clutch cause the engine to stall out? After we bypassed the clutch relay the engine kept stalling, and I had to keep my foot on the gas while he tried to charge it.
08-21-2012, 06:12 PM
#4
Honda-Tech Member
Re: AC doesnt work, recharge failed
The PCM will increase idle speed when the A/C is on to reduce idle sag or stall, the same way the power steering pressure switch works on most vehicles. In most instances jumping the compressor clutch should not cause the engine to stall, unless there is a physical problem with the compressor or pulley causing an excessive load on the drive belt.
Why did you recharge it in the first place? After answering that, when did the system last function? What type of car, engine, model year are we talking about.
Don't charge the system anymore until you find the source of the problem, it may be low refrigerant, but if you keep charging it you have no idea what the system already has in it, which can cause the compressor to hydrolock due to excessive pressure, effectively ruining it. You will need to check for leak, recharge the system properly, and then check the system for operation.
Why did you recharge it in the first place? After answering that, when did the system last function? What type of car, engine, model year are we talking about.
Don't charge the system anymore until you find the source of the problem, it may be low refrigerant, but if you keep charging it you have no idea what the system already has in it, which can cause the compressor to hydrolock due to excessive pressure, effectively ruining it. You will need to check for leak, recharge the system properly, and then check the system for operation.
08-21-2012, 06:16 PM
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Re: AC doesnt work, recharge failed
2003 3.0 V6
I recharged it because the HVAC system seemed to be in working order, all fuses intact etc. and so it was worth spending $14 to find out if it needed a recharge. I bought the car in January, but didn't try the AC until this Summer, so I have absolutely no idea when it last worked. I do know I had to replace a rear caliper because the parking brake apparently never got used, as the cable lever on the caliper was frozen so badly a sledghammer wouldn't move it.
I was thinking the compressor is getting seized, because when it died, it didn't just shut off gradually, it literally stalled like when you try to start in 3rd gear. After that I had to keep my foot on the gas so that it wouldn't stall out anymore, because it would dip down to like 400 RPM before I gave it gas. But why would the clutch not operate unless you bypass the relay with a wire?
I recharged it because the HVAC system seemed to be in working order, all fuses intact etc. and so it was worth spending $14 to find out if it needed a recharge. I bought the car in January, but didn't try the AC until this Summer, so I have absolutely no idea when it last worked. I do know I had to replace a rear caliper because the parking brake apparently never got used, as the cable lever on the caliper was frozen so badly a sledghammer wouldn't move it.
I was thinking the compressor is getting seized, because when it died, it didn't just shut off gradually, it literally stalled like when you try to start in 3rd gear. After that I had to keep my foot on the gas so that it wouldn't stall out anymore, because it would dip down to like 400 RPM before I gave it gas. But why would the clutch not operate unless you bypass the relay with a wire?
08-21-2012, 06:20 PM
#6
Honda-Tech Member
Re: AC doesnt work, recharge failed
I don't know if a bad compressor would cause the engine to stall, but it would have been a clue (to me anyway), that you weren't doing something right. I have a feeling the car (and it's computer brain) was trying to stop you from doing what you were doing.
08-21-2012, 06:39 PM
#7
Honda-Tech Member
Re: AC doesnt work, recharge failed
If you overcharged it it can produce the same effects as a seized compressor. The pressure switches will prevent it from turning on if it is over or undercharged. Honda compressors spin easily, try to spin the clutch end by hand, it should turn fairly easily, if it require a significant amount of force to turn, replace it. Inspect the system for debris on removal and flush the system with A/C solvent as required. Replace the expansion valve and receiver at the same time before flushing.
Just for information, A/C is not seasonal, you need to use it year round, just like your heat, otherwise you end up replacing heater cores and compressors and you will just sit back and wonder what went wrong... corrosion went wrong. Use it or lose it.
Just for information, A/C is not seasonal, you need to use it year round, just like your heat, otherwise you end up replacing heater cores and compressors and you will just sit back and wonder what went wrong... corrosion went wrong. Use it or lose it.
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08-21-2012, 07:13 PM
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Re: AC doesnt work, recharge failed
If you overcharged it it can produce the same effects as a seized compressor. The pressure switches will prevent it from turning on if it is over or undercharged. Honda compressors spin easily, try to spin the clutch end by hand, it should turn fairly easily, if it require a significant amount of force to turn, replace it. Inspect the system for debris on removal and flush the system with A/C solvent as required. Replace the expansion valve and receiver at the same time before flushing.
Just for information, A/C is not seasonal, you need to use it year round, just like your heat, otherwise you end up replacing heater cores and compressors and you will just sit back and wonder what went wrong... corrosion went wrong. Use it or lose it.
Just for information, A/C is not seasonal, you need to use it year round, just like your heat, otherwise you end up replacing heater cores and compressors and you will just sit back and wonder what went wrong... corrosion went wrong. Use it or lose it.
08-22-2012, 08:48 AM
#9
Honda-Tech Member
Re: AC doesnt work, recharge failed
The PCM will increase idle speed when the A/C is on to reduce idle sag or stall, the same way the power steering pressure switch works on most vehicles. In most instances jumping the compressor clutch should not cause the engine to stall, unless there is a physical problem with the compressor or pulley causing an excessive load on the drive belt.
Why did you recharge it in the first place? After answering that, when did the system last function? What type of car, engine, model year are we talking about.
Don't charge the system anymore until you find the source of the problem, it may be low refrigerant, but if you keep charging it you have no idea what the system already has in it, which can cause the compressor to hydrolock due to excessive pressure, effectively ruining it. You will need to check for leak, recharge the system properly, and then check the system for operation.
Just for information, A/C is not seasonal, you need to use it year round, just like your heat, otherwise you end up replacing heater cores and compressors and you will just sit back and wonder what went wrong... corrosion went wrong. Use it or lose it.
Why did you recharge it in the first place? After answering that, when did the system last function? What type of car, engine, model year are we talking about.
Don't charge the system anymore until you find the source of the problem, it may be low refrigerant, but if you keep charging it you have no idea what the system already has in it, which can cause the compressor to hydrolock due to excessive pressure, effectively ruining it. You will need to check for leak, recharge the system properly, and then check the system for operation.
Just for information, A/C is not seasonal, you need to use it year round, just like your heat, otherwise you end up replacing heater cores and compressors and you will just sit back and wonder what went wrong... corrosion went wrong. Use it or lose it.
You want to do this thing right or keep guessing?
First I agree try to spin the A/C Clutch by hand. If it does spin, rent some gauges from AutoZone. BLUE hose goes to the low side, RED to the high side. Make sure the ***** to the gauges are closed all the way, clockwise. Tell us what you read or get the A/C book they sell at AutoZone and see where the pressure is supposed to be at for your vehicle. There's a troubleshooting guide in the book for you to help you diagnose the problem better. Also if there's no freon in the system and you have a leak, replace the drier. Until you put gauges on the system, your wasting time and everybody in here is just guessing.
08-22-2012, 09:27 AM
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Re: AC doesnt work, recharge failed
The compressor clutch is controlled by a pressure switch, if the pressure is too high or low, then this prevents the compressor from kicking on. If this switch is bad, you can easily replace it as most vehicles use a schrader valve so that you can replace it on a full charged system.
If the refrigerant is low, connecting a can to the low side should bring it up to a pressure that will allow the clutch to engage. You may need to leave it connected for a few minutes while the car is running.
If you bypassed the system and sent power straight to the clutch, this tells me that the clutch is operational and works. It is only magnetic and runs off a coil so it is pretty simple.
If the compressor is seized, I would expect the belts to be screaming when the clutch is engaged.
If you did not over charge it and the pressure is high even on the low side, your compressor may be bad, there are seals and such that keep the high and low side separate that could be the cause, this is basically internal leaking.
It is okay to jump 12V to the compressor for testing purposes. This will not hurt anything but don't leave it that way as the compressor needs to kick off/on as the pressure increases/decreases respectively. When the clutch is engaged and the car is running, you should see the pressure fluctuate. When the gauges are connected, even the cheapest of gauges, you should see a change when the clutch kicks on, if not, your compressor is not compressing the refrigerant properly. Replace the compressor.
The good thing is that the A/C system from car to car doesn't change much, it is a simple design and easy to fix with some common knowledge.
When replacing your compressor, be sure to prefill the compressor with the proper PAG oil prior to connecting it to the system.
One of the main differences between R12 and R134a is that R12 had lubrication oil built in as the R134a is a separate product, most now come with it, but when replacing the compressor, add the proper amount in to the compressor using the correct PAG oil. Autozone has a decent variety of PAG oil too, I think 100-150 is the most common and work for many makes, however certain vehicles like VW require PAG 50.
The numbers to the PAG oil is just the viscosity of the oil itself.
With the A/C on Max, fan on high the following should be observed:
Aux Radiator fan should be on 100%
Clutch should engage and compressor should spin
The pressure switch is located along one of the A/C lines and you can bypass it to see if the compressor kicks in, if it does, you either have a bad switch or are over/under charged.
An overcharged system will show the same signs as an under charged system. Adjust the pressure as needed. Most cans come with the little gauge and that works fine, keep it in the green or blue whatever the gauge is. Make sure the needle stays in the green area when the compressor kicks on and off by itself, this is important and will allow you to properly charge the system without complicated gauges. The gauge should drop when the compressor kicks on but then should steady out. The compressor should then kick off once on the high side of the green.
Best of luck.
If the refrigerant is low, connecting a can to the low side should bring it up to a pressure that will allow the clutch to engage. You may need to leave it connected for a few minutes while the car is running.
If you bypassed the system and sent power straight to the clutch, this tells me that the clutch is operational and works. It is only magnetic and runs off a coil so it is pretty simple.
If the compressor is seized, I would expect the belts to be screaming when the clutch is engaged.
If you did not over charge it and the pressure is high even on the low side, your compressor may be bad, there are seals and such that keep the high and low side separate that could be the cause, this is basically internal leaking.
It is okay to jump 12V to the compressor for testing purposes. This will not hurt anything but don't leave it that way as the compressor needs to kick off/on as the pressure increases/decreases respectively. When the clutch is engaged and the car is running, you should see the pressure fluctuate. When the gauges are connected, even the cheapest of gauges, you should see a change when the clutch kicks on, if not, your compressor is not compressing the refrigerant properly. Replace the compressor.
The good thing is that the A/C system from car to car doesn't change much, it is a simple design and easy to fix with some common knowledge.
When replacing your compressor, be sure to prefill the compressor with the proper PAG oil prior to connecting it to the system.
One of the main differences between R12 and R134a is that R12 had lubrication oil built in as the R134a is a separate product, most now come with it, but when replacing the compressor, add the proper amount in to the compressor using the correct PAG oil. Autozone has a decent variety of PAG oil too, I think 100-150 is the most common and work for many makes, however certain vehicles like VW require PAG 50.
The numbers to the PAG oil is just the viscosity of the oil itself.
With the A/C on Max, fan on high the following should be observed:
Aux Radiator fan should be on 100%
Clutch should engage and compressor should spin
The pressure switch is located along one of the A/C lines and you can bypass it to see if the compressor kicks in, if it does, you either have a bad switch or are over/under charged.
An overcharged system will show the same signs as an under charged system. Adjust the pressure as needed. Most cans come with the little gauge and that works fine, keep it in the green or blue whatever the gauge is. Make sure the needle stays in the green area when the compressor kicks on and off by itself, this is important and will allow you to properly charge the system without complicated gauges. The gauge should drop when the compressor kicks on but then should steady out. The compressor should then kick off once on the high side of the green.
Best of luck.
08-22-2012, 11:42 AM
#11
Honda-Tech Member
Re: AC doesnt work, recharge failed
The compressor clutch is controlled by a pressure switch, if the pressure is too high or low, then this prevents the compressor from kicking on. If this switch is bad, you can easily replace it as most vehicles use a schrader valve so that you can replace it on a full charged system.
If the refrigerant is low, connecting a can to the low side should bring it up to a pressure that will allow the clutch to engage. You may need to leave it connected for a few minutes while the car is running.
If you bypassed the system and sent power straight to the clutch, this tells me that the clutch is operational and works. It is only magnetic and runs off a coil so it is pretty simple.
If the compressor is seized, I would expect the belts to be screaming when the clutch is engaged.
If you did not over charge it and the pressure is high even on the low side, your compressor may be bad, there are seals and such that keep the high and low side separate that could be the cause, this is basically internal leaking.
It is okay to jump 12V to the compressor for testing purposes. This will not hurt anything but don't leave it that way as the compressor needs to kick off/on as the pressure increases/decreases respectively. When the clutch is engaged and the car is running, you should see the pressure fluctuate. When the gauges are connected, even the cheapest of gauges, you should see a change when the clutch kicks on, if not, your compressor is not compressing the refrigerant properly. Replace the compressor.
The good thing is that the A/C system from car to car doesn't change much, it is a simple design and easy to fix with some common knowledge.
When replacing your compressor, be sure to prefill the compressor with the proper PAG oil prior to connecting it to the system.
One of the main differences between R12 and R134a is that R12 had lubrication oil built in as the R134a is a separate product, most now come with it, but when replacing the compressor, add the proper amount in to the compressor using the correct PAG oil. Autozone has a decent variety of PAG oil too, I think 100-150 is the most common and work for many makes, however certain vehicles like VW require PAG 50.
The numbers to the PAG oil is just the viscosity of the oil itself.
With the A/C on Max, fan on high the following should be observed:
Aux Radiator fan should be on 100%
Clutch should engage and compressor should spin
The pressure switch is located along one of the A/C lines and you can bypass it to see if the compressor kicks in, if it does, you either have a bad switch or are over/under charged.
An overcharged system will show the same signs as an under charged system. Adjust the pressure as needed. Most cans come with the little gauge and that works fine, keep it in the green or blue whatever the gauge is. Make sure the needle stays in the green area when the compressor kicks on and off by itself, this is important and will allow you to properly charge the system without complicated gauges. The gauge should drop when the compressor kicks on but then should steady out. The compressor should then kick off once on the high side of the green.
Best of luck.
If the refrigerant is low, connecting a can to the low side should bring it up to a pressure that will allow the clutch to engage. You may need to leave it connected for a few minutes while the car is running.
If you bypassed the system and sent power straight to the clutch, this tells me that the clutch is operational and works. It is only magnetic and runs off a coil so it is pretty simple.
If the compressor is seized, I would expect the belts to be screaming when the clutch is engaged.
If you did not over charge it and the pressure is high even on the low side, your compressor may be bad, there are seals and such that keep the high and low side separate that could be the cause, this is basically internal leaking.
It is okay to jump 12V to the compressor for testing purposes. This will not hurt anything but don't leave it that way as the compressor needs to kick off/on as the pressure increases/decreases respectively. When the clutch is engaged and the car is running, you should see the pressure fluctuate. When the gauges are connected, even the cheapest of gauges, you should see a change when the clutch kicks on, if not, your compressor is not compressing the refrigerant properly. Replace the compressor.
The good thing is that the A/C system from car to car doesn't change much, it is a simple design and easy to fix with some common knowledge.
When replacing your compressor, be sure to prefill the compressor with the proper PAG oil prior to connecting it to the system.
One of the main differences between R12 and R134a is that R12 had lubrication oil built in as the R134a is a separate product, most now come with it, but when replacing the compressor, add the proper amount in to the compressor using the correct PAG oil. Autozone has a decent variety of PAG oil too, I think 100-150 is the most common and work for many makes, however certain vehicles like VW require PAG 50.
The numbers to the PAG oil is just the viscosity of the oil itself.
With the A/C on Max, fan on high the following should be observed:
Aux Radiator fan should be on 100%
Clutch should engage and compressor should spin
The pressure switch is located along one of the A/C lines and you can bypass it to see if the compressor kicks in, if it does, you either have a bad switch or are over/under charged.
An overcharged system will show the same signs as an under charged system. Adjust the pressure as needed. Most cans come with the little gauge and that works fine, keep it in the green or blue whatever the gauge is. Make sure the needle stays in the green area when the compressor kicks on and off by itself, this is important and will allow you to properly charge the system without complicated gauges. The gauge should drop when the compressor kicks on but then should steady out. The compressor should then kick off once on the high side of the green.
Best of luck.
08-22-2012, 10:39 PM
#12
Honda-Tech Member
Re: AC doesnt work, recharge failed
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