Metaccord

We have a 2010 Accord just out of warranty. I have fed it Mobil 1 synthetic since about the 3rd oil change (first 2 were dealer).

Tonight, my wife reported that the oil light came on while backing out of the driveway. We checked the dipstick, and it's reading lower than low, with about a drop of oil on the end. When I last changed the oil, I made sure it was around the high mark. It's not leaking to the ground either, and I don't see any oil around the engine, except for a bit of old drippage residue around the dipstick.

Has anyone else noticed high oil consumption with this vehicle? I've been doing 10k mile oil changes since I'm using full synthetic, and it's ready for a change, but this seems excessive. I'm using 0w-20, for what it's worth.

GoLowDrew

A few things.

- There is a TSB on the oil consumption.

- There is a class action lawsuit that extend the powertrain warranty on this issue.

Both are sticky on this section.

- Just wondering why you are using 0-20? I use Mobil 1 also at 5-20. I have a 2010 V6 too.

- My Accord does use more oil than my Odyssey for some reason considering it's the same J35.

- Is this the first time you notice it? How often do you check your oil? I felt like I need to add about 2qt per 10,000 mile (1 yr) cycle, spread out between the months. So basically I add a bit every two months or so. My Odyssey uses about 1/2 qt per 10,000 miles.

- J35 owners have said on forums that using synthetic oil does increase oil consumption. I do feel the same way in my case and use. However, I still use full synthetic for other reasons. I may switch to syn blend or just go back to dino oil all together. I've used conventional for 30 years and on all my Hondas, prior to 2 years ago. I only made the change because I'v never tried full syn, and read all the "benefits" of full syn oil.

- With my past Hondas (I4), checking oil level was not necessary and buying extra oil was a waste of money. The J35 V6 is different. I check it a lot more often now. It seems like all engines burn oil now. Nissan, Honda, and even Porsche consider oil consumption to be a "norm."

Metaccord

I read the sticky, but it only applies to the V6 models, which ours is not. 0w-20 is recommended for better gas mileage, and is much more common in synthetic than 5w-20 is (at least around here).

Thanks for the feedback, I'm glad to hear this isn't outside of the norm.

Off-topic a bit, but I also own a 97 Toyota Camry, and it's been an absolute dream. Nothing but preventative maintenance and belts. Has never used oil. I'm a bit disappointed with this Honda. We've had electrical issues due to a 12v USB charger being plugged into the center console (caused TPMS to screw up and erroneously complain about low tire pressure), we had to replace the battery at 50k miles (perhaps not outside of normal? I dunno, just not used to replacing batteries within 3 years), the keyless entry remotes only work intermittently now, it sometimes refuses to start for some strange reason (just a click, as though the battery were dead, but it isn't), and now the oil consumption. I'm warning everyone I know against buying an Accord.

johnsc2235

The 4 Cylinder accords do have a oil consumption problem, we replace pistons and rings on them at a rate of at least one a week if not more. It is very important to change oil every 3-5 thousand miles and check your oil level. We see them more often on peoples vehicles that do not change oil on a regular basis. Personally I would never go 10K between changes even if I hated the car, I go every 3000-3500 with full synthetic but thats another story. I would assume that it has been run low several cycles which if you are not checking the oil and adding it, it will never go 10K without adding at least a qt or two. So over time and running it low the rings got worn/stuck. The only way to resolve it is to replace the pistons n rings. This may be covered still even though it is out of warranty however you typically need a good service history at the dealer. Usually you also need proof of oil changes. You could goto the dealer and have them start an oil consumption test and then you have to fill out the forms. They will change your oil, then you need to check your oil every time you fill up and write down how much you add and at the mileage interval. If it fits into their criteria then they or you can ask for honda assistance or goodwill. If they feel you have a good service history or are a good customer they may cover some or all of the cost. The USB thing is not really Hondas fault, Honda had a few issues with batteries however they seem to have been fixed by now, but you may want your battery checked again, I have seen batteries fail in 6 months, it all depends…They Keyless remotes used to have a service bulletin on them for that issue where people would get new key fob "guts" that would fix the issue, Another thing you can try is to remove the screw, pull out the "guts" remove the battery, wipe it clean and then re install and that typically works. As far as the oil thing..Like I have always said, oil is cheap insurance, people that read that you don't need to change oil as much has obviously never worked in the field and seen the outcome day after day. $30 oil changes are cheaper than a $2000-4000 engine…

Metaccord

Changing oil every 3500 miles is overkill, especially with full synthetic.

johnsc2235

Do you work at a dealer? Do you see how many of these things we have gone thru? Have you worked on Honda's for over 14 years? Have you worked on cars for over 20 years? Do you talk to the Honda Engineers? No? OK then you have no idea what you are talking about. You ask for opinions and when you get them you shoot them down. I just know what I see and deal with daily. I try and help people out when I can, some listen others don't. Ive had 24 Different Honda/Acura's throughout the years. Ive changed oil every 3000-4000miles regular or synthetic, Its cheap insurance….Ive never went thru rings, I've never had seals go out, ect. I run my cars hard…Ive never had issues..
Don't change your oil then…replace pistons every 70-90K, Which is the average we see the failures at..

furious94ls

I like how people with oil burning issues think 3-3500 is overkill yet are the ones with oil consumption problems. lol $30 every 3 months doesn't hurt me in the least. I love having a clean trouble free engine that uses no oil between changes. 133k on the clock add no oil between changes. Even if I let it go to 4k.

johnsc2235

Amen to that

johnsc2235

Amen to that

Metaccord

Maybe we know there are oil consumption issues because we're not changing our oil every 3 months. That is just a silly oil change schedule to maintain, outside of a service vehicle of some sort. Additionally, I did not solicit any advice from anyone - I asked for data points (Has anyone else noticed high oil consumption with this vehicle?).

johnsc2235

Sorry was just trying to help and give some good advice. Silly? every three months maybe but not every 3000-4000 miles.

turbomaniac

try to calculate how much is the oil consumpion per 1000 miles. if it is more than 300 ml/1000 miles or if you start seeing white smoke from the exhaust when is hot, then you must do further research (valve stems, piston rings etc)

keep adding oil...

GoLowDrew

If your oil consumption is with the I4, then it most likely is the VTC actuator. There is a recall (or TSB) on it IIRC. Try searching by that. I didn't follow it that closely because I got a V6.

As far as finding 5W-20 M1, it took a while too (not that I was looking real hard for it) for it to be commonly available (at the right price), that's why I didn't make the switch until later. Costco, for example, never had it until recently. They had a coupon which make it worth my while to go full syn on all my Hondas, and I stocked up on 5-20.

I did thought about using 0-20 because I could not find 5-20. Since it's "common" now, I 'll stay with 5-20 full syn.

johnsc2235

It has nothing to do with vtc....

Metaccord

Will Honda cover repairs under this service bulletin outside of warranty? I would say that it consumed about 1.5 to 2 quarts of 0w-20 oil in 10k miles.

johnsc2235

That would not be considered using oil. 1-2 qts every 2-3000 miles would be.

Metaccord

You can't be serious. I would expect that from something made 30 years ago, not a 2010 Honda Accord.

johnsc2235

Very serious. First off if you came in and said you change oil every 10k and complained it uses 1-2 qts they would just shake their head at you. We won't do anything at our dealer unless your car is consuming 1qt every 2000 miles. Honda states 1qt every 1000 miles can be normal. Most cars will use at least 1qt after 5000 miles. It all depends on your maintance, how you drive and how many miles are on the engine. Between the 4 and 6 cyl using oil And V6 misfires we are doing 6-10 engines a week.

Metaccord

Of course Honda would say that's normal, they wouldn't imply any fault of their own when it comes to an issue like this. My 15 year old Toyota Camry doesn't consume oil like this. If a modern Honda Accord is supposed to consume oil at this rate, I don't think I'd buy another one.

johnnyb588

What answer are you looking for? You seem to have them all.

GoLowDrew

The answer is, all engine burn oil now. Or they don't make them like they used to.

I've own Hondas for 20+ years and as mentioned, they (all 5 of them) never burn any oil. That's why I spend $70K on two (current) Hondas. I trust these cars. They burn oil, so....

If you search Toyota for oil consumption, you will find their 2.5 and 3.5 V6 also burn oil. I don't follow it, don't know all the details, but it does. You are either lucky or not, really.

Want to try Hyundai? GM? Ford? BMW? They just don't make them like they used to.

Think about this, does a car that run 300,000 miles on the original engine make good business sense?

johnsc2235

The long and short of it is a three part issue.
1. Maintance minder system- Honda and Toyota have long been known to be great cars but costly to maintain. So a selling point for the domestics was these don't need all the maintance the Hondas and toyotas do so they are cheaper to own..ect ect. So to be more competitive they (Honda n Toyota) have cut their maintance packages so they cost less to own and thus can say they compare in costs to maintain to domestic cars. If you go by averages most people buy new cars every 4-6 years, so the manufactures really push to resell cars every 4-6 years. Thus they don't care if it lasts 300,000 anymore, it only has to last 4-6 years for that customer to be happy and buy another one. Little do they know most people love and keep their Hondas long past that timeframe. Well that's a problem because people are not maintaining their car anymore for longevity it is strictly just enough to get by.
2. Fuel economy - engines are now made for fuel economy for govt/cafe standards. So to get the best fuel economy you need a car to be light, and an engine that has little parasitic loss (such as windage). Well with all the structural things that the car needs to pass crash tests weighs a lot and All the Srs components weigh so much you need to work on the engine. It has to be able to pass emissions as well so then they need to make it light weigh, with as little loss as possible. So you need to take friction out of the equation. So you make oil super thin 5-20/0-20 thus reducing windage loss meaning more power. Windage loss is the power it takes to spin the rotating crank thur the oil and various parts (pistons ). Also make the rings thinner for again less friction. BUT there comes a point where all these combinations equals disaster. First when oil is so thin it doesn't lubricate like it should, second thinner rings n components means it will wear out quicker and thirdly not changing that oil (which is too thin to begin with) in a timely manner before it's worn out, wears out parts quicker.
3. Cost cutting/profit margins
This is pretty self explanatory. If you can get vendor A to make this part cheaper than vendor B it makes you more profit, so you have a vendor that makes incredible product but it costs you 5 cents more you are going with that cheaper vendor because it costs you less. The car does not have to last 300000 miles. You want it to fail at some point so they comeback and buy another one.

So those are factors as to what's going on.. As the saying goes, nothing is made like it used to be... Shareholders and profits run the show now more than making a bulletproof product.

And this does not just go with Hondas.
Toyota. Porsche as well states 1qt every 1000miles is normal.

P-M-B,93EXsedan

>ITT
people who didnt change their oil every 3,000 miles

my j30a4 uses fluids perfectly, no oil loss whatsoever over the 3,000 mile change interval.

you guys should really just change your oil every 3,000 miles. It costs what, 25$ for good oil and like 10$ for filter? I forget how much OEM filter costs but I always used those too.

Metaccord

This will be the last post I make on this subject, because it's been completely derailed into a holy war.

1) Again, I didn't ask for answers. I asked if anyone else had seen this behavior. Burning 2 quarts of oil between change intervals in a 2010 Honda Accord should not be considered OK. I would, however, be more willing to discuss oil consumption by viscosity, if the potential for increased consumption comes with lower viscosity.
2) Changing your oil every 3k miles on full synthetic is absolute overkill.
3) Honda Accord LX 4D sedans with 4 cylinders are not sports cars (Porches).
4) A 15 year old V6 Camry doesn't burn oil like this Accord does. Think on that just for a moment.
5) I get the impression that this forum operates in an echo chamber. Some of you really need to seek other sources of information on oil change intervals with full synthetic.

johnsc2235

1. You asked a Question, You got replys, yes we have seen it and gave descriptions of why because thats what car guys do. Viscosity may help a little and using non synthetic may also help, however after the damage is done there is little left to do to fix the issue short of replacing rings.
2. Yes every 3K on Synthetic may be overkill, however I just stated that I do it every 3-4K, on fully synthetic You could do every 5K if you check you oil every gas fill up and top off when needed. Again my professional opinion.
3. I never said a Honda Accord was a sports car (Porsche) Which is not what I was implying, just simply stating that Porsche regardless if it is a sports car or not also will use oil. Im not sure what that has anything to do with what I was saying. I could've said other manufactures but then someone would chime in and say who so that is why I stated that fact. There are many many manufactures that state this, not just Honda, Acura, Toyota, Porsche….Many others state that as well.
4. See my above Post about Maintance Minder, Fuel Economy and Cost Cutting
If you would have read that that gives you all the answers you need to know about why your 15 year old Toyota doesn't use oil and your current Honda Does. All of my Older Hondas do not use oil, Not even my Turbo Charged Integra or my Supercharged Integra, both that I track quite often, It is the nature of the business. The fact of the matter is you can't buy anything, not just a car but anything, made like is used to be. Look at refrigerators, My grandparents are still using their old one from back in the 60's, works great! Its not as efficient as the new ones, uses more electricity but still works. I am on my third refrigerator in 15 years now, So as you see they are not made like the used to be. TV's, my grandparents still are using their old big wood boob tube tv from the 80's, Still works great! Ive had to replace my Plasma TV for a LCD after 5 years because it burned out, 6 years after that the light bulb burned out of my LCD tv, so I had to replace the bulb, My other LCD tv burned out some board in 7 years so I had to by an LED TV, meanwhile my grandparents are still watching that same TV….You see everything is made cheaper and cheaper, for more and more profit for shareholders and stocks…Plus all the regulations that are placed on the manufactures also costs them lots and lots of money so they have to either pass it on or cut costs in other areas. I think they do a little of both. you probably only have 1 ecu and two maybe four airbags in your 15 year old toyota. Today Hondas have numerous ecu's and control units, I believe the pilot has 11, plus 8 or more airbags, tpms, extra crash protection, more fuel economy all add up to a large sum of money. So IF they could manufacture an Accord or Whatever toyota you had, from 15 years ago today, make it run just as well and last just as long you would probably be paying closer to $50-60K for an accord instead of $25-30K. How many do you think they would sell and would you buy one for that price? Doubtful..
5. Echo chamber? Seek other sources on oil change intervals?
I WORK for Honda and have for almost 15 years, have been a mechanic for over 20 years. Fully Factory trained, I have all my certifications, I even have a Degree in Automotive Engineering and Manufacture Engineering so I am pretty sure I know what I am talking about. People on these boards ask for help, I try and help point them in the direction to help them, If they don't want to listen thats fine, If they don't like my answers that is also fine. But you can't argue the truth, it is what I see everyday, and have seen and worked with for over the last 20 years. I wouldn't go tell a Dr that he doesnt know what he is talking about because of some articles I've read online…I would trust his judgement because not everything you read is correct. The people writing the articles are not mechanics, they are journalist, there is a difference.
Good luck with your accord. Yes lots of people have seen this behavior, we see it daily in my shop.