SJ1978

Currently, I drive a 2010 Camry with over 310K miles on it. I had a $400 repair on it last week (water pump) and I know that the car won't last forever. Other than this and an A/C compressor, the car gave me no problems and nothing to repair other than things like an occasion belt, wheel bearings and tires. I could finance a new car and afford it, but I am not really into cars. I just want something that works. A family member wants to unload a 2002 Accord. Car has only 80K miles on it. 100% city driving. Wants to sell it since now lives in downtown area of a city and doesn't need the car and does not use it much. Dealer offered her $2,500. She is willing to sell it to me at that amount.

I think it is a good deal and I should jump on it. But, I am a bit hesitant to spend any money on a 2002 car. However, I think this one might be different since it was gently driven, I know the oil got changed regularly, and it only has 80K miles on it. What do you think generally about this and 2002 accords? Not sure if the timing belt got replaced, but probably not. Any idea how much that is, if I need to get that done.

I figure worst case scenario I could probably use it for a year or two and sell it for at least $2,500, effectively making it a free car for me. But, would like to hear comments about driving a car from 2002. If I do get the Accord, the Camry will be my back up car, as even though it is from 2002, it only has <100K miles on it.

MAD_MIKE

They are good cars.
Timing belt and water pump are due unless she has records of it being done recently. Belt should be changed every 90Kmiles or 5 years. Whichever comes first. Ideal time to also adjust the valves, replace the spark plugs, and clean out the EGR passages in the upper plenum and lower intake.
If she has never had any transmission problems then she has one of the good ones. Usually they would be dead by 30-40Kmiles on a V6 if they were a problematic unit.
Only other real concern is the engine cradle. Check on th passenger side where the A/C drain is. It drains right on top of the cradle and cars that live in salted areas are usually rotted out unless the issue was corrected.
If the cradle is trashed, and you are not up for the work, your aunt should probably take the $2500 and run before the dealer realizes it.

shipo

I'll tell you what, I need to buy a car for my daughter, if you don't buy the car from your family member, pass their name along to me and I'll buy the car for cash.

Stelcom66

In September I bought a 1999 Accord EX. It's got about 170k on it now, feels like it has 60k on it. Everything works and the car hardly feels worn. I went to an older car - had a 2002 Subaru Forester that needed A/C work and it was getting close to the time the head gaskets would need to be replaced. I bought the '99 for about the same cost it would be for the Subaru repairs. I didn't expect this - nor was it an attribute I was looking for but it's fun to drive. Mine is a 5 speed manual which is part of the reason but it handles surprisingly well - to the point where I find myself taking corners faster than I ever would with the Forester.

Wow only 80k on a 2002! $2500 is a good price IMO. Mad Mike mentioned the timing belt. That's one concern I have about mine - I don't know when the timing belt was changed. I don't know if it would be worth paying to have it inspected, if that's even possible - or might as well just have the belt replaced. I paid $2600 for mine from a dealer. Most will think that's quite high but that's what they go for around here, and a manual trans. is a rare find.

Slow&Steady

City miles are much worse than highway miles since engine startups are what causes most piston wear. However, I wouldn't let that bother me much if the oil was changed correctly and on time.

If you buy it, get that timing belt changed ASAP. Breaking a timing belt on a Honda (interference engine) usually means the engine will be destroyed and you will need a new engine. Manual has recommended replacement at 105,000 miles (I think) or X number of years. After that it's every 80K or 8 years, whichever comes first. That's an old car now, I'd get it replaced the day you buy it. Ditto on water pump and "valve adjustment." Cost is less than a new engine.

I love my 2002 Accord and I live in a salty state! I have already had some body rust cut out and replaced with undamaged metal. I'll get more of this done soon as I have a hole in a floor pan. I just love my car and want to keep her going. This spring I'll replace all fuel and brake lines with copper-nickel tubing. I'll also get my rims blasted and powder coated to get those looking new. Finally I'll wire wheel surface rust from the bottom and POR 15 the area. New headlamps are planned due to the fogging of the original ones (I hate plastic lights!).

Honda automatic transmissions, especially on the V6 (like MAD MIKE stated) are very weak, BUT DO NOT FLUSH THE TRANSMISSION. Apparently that can really mess up an auto tranny. Get the fluid drained and replaced every 60,000 miles. I do that with my auto and I am about to go to doing it every 30,000 miles.

In short, I love the '01 and '02 Accords and I hope you get a good deal. Hit us with pics when you can.

shipo

Per my Owner's Manual the timing belt change schedule is 105,000-miles or 7-years, whichever comes first. That applies to the first change as well as all subsequent changes.

lothian

My kids and I play "Spot Six Sixth-gen Accords in Six Minutes" game. There is a very good reason we rarely fail to win at this game. The pavement is maggoty with this specific generation of Accord, the epitome of stalwart reliability.

If you are on the fence about buying that car, please PM me.


Buy that Accord. Then...
- Perform a full "timing belt job" (includes idler pulley, tensioner, accessory belt, and water pump)
- Drain and flush the coolant; replace with Evans Waterless Coolant (Inspect upper and lower radiator hoses and clamps)
- Install an external transmission oil filter
- Change the motor oil and replace with synthetic 5w-20
- Drain three quarts of transmission oil and replace with Honda ATF DW-1 (Check ATF level prior to drain and note color of oil)
- Replace the valve gaskets, PCV, VTEC filter/gasket, oil hole gasket, oil pressure switch, and camshaft thrust cover o-rings (Inspect the oil pan perimeter and the flywheel inspection plate for oil)
- Replace each spark plug

Things to consider...
- Inspect and clean battery terminals
- Inspect and clean the throttle body
- Remove the intake plenum and the EGR valve and clean the EGR ports
- Replace brake fluid
- Flush and replace power steering fluid (with Genuine Honda only)
- Inspect all dampers for oil seepage
- Inspect lower ball joints, stabilizer links, stabilizer bar bushings, and all dust boots (power steering, CV axles, etc)
- Inspect exhaust for significant abrasion/rust
- Inspect brake rotors and pads
- Replace the air filter and the cabin filters
- Install a quality oil catch can
- Remove and clean the filter screens in the dual linear solenoid assembly

Things to watch out for...
- Transmission issues beginning around ~90k miles
- Persistent engine misfire codes (P030x)
- Intermittent oxygen sensor code (P0141)
- Dreaded "Heat Soak" warm-weather stalling gremlin

Finally...
- Use Genuine Honda parts (new/used/salvaged), or purchase reputable after-market products (preferably those who manufacture for OEM)
- Find a reputable local independent Honda-specialist shop--avoid the dealership (Since you're "not really into cars", I presume you're not particularly motivated to diagnose and perform your own repairs. And with that in mind...)
- Purchase an OBDII scan tool that reads ABS/SRS/Engine/Transmission + CAN (Empower yourself with a tool that tells you the cause for the check engine, brakes, or SRS light to appear... and each inevitably will)
- Create an account on all Honda-centric forums, and post your questions on every one. (to wit: DriveAccord.net; HondaAccordForum.com; v6performance.net; 6thGenAccord.com)

Justin02Accord

Any specific one you recommend? I have an 02 Accord EX, auto, 170k miles, and shifts from first to second are very hard, almost jarring (although if I sort of massage the throttle right at the moment of shifting, I can make it more gentle). I'm assuming my trans is on the way out, but anything I can do to extend its life and improve the shifting would be great.

lothian

I use the Raybestos Magnetic Automatic Transmission Filter in each of the family cars (currently four).

Outside of the scope of this thread, but...
You mention hard 1/2 shifting. Consider removing the dual linear solenoid (six 10mm fasteners secure it to the top of the transmission) and pull the tubes nestled within to clear the screens within each of the detritus you find. Could resolve your shifting issue, albeit until the inevitable...

Slow&Steady

lothian,

Beautiful stuff there, thank you for that.

*My '02 Accord was bought new by my parents from the lot. I received it with 60,000 miles or so and it seemed to "search" for gears (hilly in WV). I changed the tranny fluid and that went away. I then began changing the fluid every 60,000 miles and am about to go to changing it every 30,000 miles. I know these Hondas do not have transmission filters, only screens. What do you think of my fluid change habits as compared to installing the external tranny filter you recommend?

lothian

Let's respect the OP and not hi-jack the thread with a digression on the Accord's notorious transmission.
That said, here's my response:

"...Hondas do not have transmission filters, only screens."
Only screens? Not really. But it's not technically accurate to call the doodad inside the B7XA transmission (used in the 6th-gen Accords) a filter either. Honda uses the term "strainer", and from an engineering standpoint there's a difference. Semantics aside, whatever that thing is called, it's not serviceable. But the more salient point is, filtration isn't particularly germane to the issue(s) that vexes the B7XA transmission in our Accords..

"I...am about to [change AFT] every 30,000 miles. What do you think of my fluid change habits as compared to installing the external tranny filter you recommend?"
Much... much... much has been written about the troublesome B7XA--as well as its equally kludgy brethern, the BYBA and BGRA units found in Odysseys, and the BDGA, B7VA and B7WA transmissions used in the Acura TL. Move away from the anecdotal explanations within these Honda-centric forums. With some diligent research, you'll discover that a myriad of articles drill-down on this juxtaposition conundrum that a famously reliable car is mated with an infamously unreliable transmission.

First: A reality check.
The B7XA transmission (et al), even those predisposed to fail, work nominally for years over tens of thousands of miles in spite of any supposed inherent design gremlins--indeed, a handful of acquaintances I've met over the years smugly drive their 6th gen Accords with absolutely zero transmission issues. Statistically, however, a 6th gen Accord owner (and Acura TL's with BDGA, B7VA or B7WA transmissions) will likely experience a transmission failure sooner than preferred. To be forewarned is to be forearmed. Start your reserve fund now.

Filtration is not the problem.
The consensus is that these transmissions fail due to inherent design oversight that causes excessive heat under normal operation. Excessive heat causes the break down of the suspension and lubricity properties unique to Honda's special brew AFT. Neither the radiator nor the internal filtration can keep up, which has obvious--and inevitable--consequences to the mechanical nummies. And so, the genesis of the (now common) addendum to an Accord's regularly scheduled maintenance--more frequent AFT changes and use of a replaceable external AFT filter--both of which only stave off the inevitable replacement. Furthermore... The 2002 Acura TL transmission includes an external ATF filter (p/n: 25450-P7W-003) in addition to an internal AFT strainer--yet It was still a wholly unreliable transmission. I cite this fact as further evidence that filtering ATF has zero relevance regarding the failure of this generation of transmissions.

So what causes the heat?
It appears that restrictions in a few key areas within the valve and accumulator bodies and openings thru the separator plates hamper ATF flow. To make matters worse, restricted flow was also a design characteristic of the original torque converter, which exacerbated the problems in the transmission proper and led to damage to this part. Basically the myriad heat issues created a sort of negative feedback loop, if that term can applied to a hydraulically-actuated system.

Is there a fix?
I think the answer is yes. Precisely because this flaw has been so well studied by aftermarket automotive engineers, a remedy procedure (enlarging openings, boring existing guides, larger valves, etc) and retrofit kits exist (replacement valves and check-ball) for application by a reputable Honda transmission rebuilder. An B7XA transmission so upgraded and equipped with a new, upgraded torque converter will likely outlast the Accord it serves.

And where's Honda in all this?
Arguably, Honda took a hit to their reputation for reliability directly as a consequence of their shoddy transmissions built from '99 on. Indeed, the Honda brand lost its standing as the paragon of reliability years ago. At some point in the distant past, Honda issued a recall. A class action lawsuit was brought against Honda over a decade ago, with Honda conceding only to offer an extended warranty on the transmission without admitting any defect in their design. We are well past any remedy from Honda at this point, of course. And our only recourse is to swap hardware.

Back to your question: Does the amended transmission maintenance actually work?
It should be apparent by now that the frequent AFT change/external AFT filter isn't an "as compared to" decision. Do both.

And finally, this caveat:
I am the original owner of a 2000 v6. The transmission done broke at 148k--low mileage by car standards, though well past the (supposed) average reported 90k failure for the B7XA. Somehow I missed the recall notice from a bazillion years ago, and I didn't employ the supplemental transmission whatnots until, lets say, 2010. Therefore, I cannot claim with any empirical certitude that the hassle and expense of the additional maintenance was efficacious in extending the life of the transmission. I'm also the original owner of an '05 Odyssey with 155k on the odo'majiggy. I installed an external filter on it as well. The transmission is showing early signs of immanent failure.

<plaintive sigh>

Justin02Accord

Lothian, thanks for this excellent information.

And to the OP...get the Accord! They are wonderful cars. I have a 2015 CR-Z and I drive my nearly twenty year-old Accord almost every time.

Slow&Steady

One has to love a discussion forum. I have been a member of many, going back to the excellent Parallax Bills Surplus Rifle Forum (which was the best I have ever been on for courtesy and knowledge). If you want as exact an answer as you can get, the discussion forum is the way to go.

That said, that was one detailed answer lothian! However, I don't think most of us can afford a new torque converter install....at least not if a mechanic or shop has to be hired. And based on videos by Scotty Kilmer, most shops are no longer able to rebuild transmissions very well. I messaged him on the subject of the Honda auto tranny, and his advice was for me to keep up the 60K fluid change. I'm going to give the 30K fluid change a try and I'll get back to the forum with what I find.

*But you are telling us you did extra fluid changes and it still went out below the mileage of my car? My plans may well be superfluous but I'm going for it anyway.

I might would go for an external tranny filter but is there a video on how to do that? I would be lost.

I have 181K on the car and I'm shooting for 250K. My tranny is doing well but I baby the car. Right now rust is my big problem, it's WV after all.

I wish my car was a manual tranny....I keep an eye out for a good '98 to '02 Accord manual but I want to fix up my car first before getting something else.

shipo

Geez did I find the car for you last fall...

I was being approached for a gig which would have had me in the Bay area two weeks per month and I started looking for something to buy instead of renting on every trip. I found a cherry 2002 5-Speed Accord EX-L Sedan with only 110,000 miles on it for something like $3,500. I almost flew out and bought it just to have it handy. :tongue:

Slow&Steady

shipo go back and edit your post for me.......lothian's reply was so detailed I missed some of what he typed and just now had to go back and correct and edit my reply. The guy deserved more credit than what I was giving him.

Keep your eyes open for me! Maybe we could work out a deal later on.

lothian

"I found a 2002 5-Speed Accord EX-L Sedan with only 110,000 miles on it for something like $3,500..."
Ugh. I want that car. Soooo... have you swapped in a 6sp transmission, a 3.5 J35A5 and a new ECU yet? Check out the shenanigans of the Accord-tweaking gearheads at v6performance.net.

"I might would go for an external tranny filter but is there a video on how to do that?"
It's a stupid easy install. Messy to be sure, but easy. There's gotta be a video, but in a nutshell:

Purchase one external 3/8" ATF filter; two hose 3/4" clamps; one bottle of "Kooler Kleen Trasmission Line Flush", and a couple zip ties. The preferred installation is on the ATF outflow line from AT to the radiator, location is near the bottom of the radiator, with purpose of filtering schputz from ATF before it heads into the radiator, AND provide easy access for routine filter replacement (per manufacturer recommended schedule). You should have shop air handy as well.

With collection bucket, pile'o rags, and a 50lb bag of Sorbent at the standby...
- Cut the outflow line approximately where you want to situate the ATF filter, immediately plug the AT side;
- Remove the ATF return line from the B-pipe (at top of the AT), plug pipe end, and finagle the coolant line down to the collection bucket;
- Insert the Kooler Kleen nozzle into the cut end leading into the radiator and blast away until the stream from the return line runs clear;
- Blast air thru the radiator to evacuate all Kooler Kleen;
- Reconnect the ATF return line to the B-pipe;
- Slip hose clamps on both cut ends of the outflow line, then slip the ATF filter into each--mind the flow arrow.
- Secure what needs securing and check ATF level.

Total job time: 3 hours (half-hour to do the deed--two-and-a-half to cleanup all the ATF that misses the bucket!) <smirk>


The humble external ATF filter, for whatever benefit it provides.

Slow&Steady

That's pretty neat......about the filter that is. I guess when it comes time to replace the filter there will be another ATF fluid spill? How about a valve install also to allow the fluid to be cut off at the time of the next filter change?

A transmission swap, auto to manual, for me, is too much to do or even attempt. I would consider paying someone to do it for me if they allowed me to help. There was a member on here (hope he's still on) that offered to do just that but I wasn't able to get over to his house and the tranny he offered to give me might have had some problems.

I can't really travel anywhere right now. My mother is bedridden and I am the main help my dad has with her. That limits my free time to just about 8 hours max per day. I can't get too far away. She can, at times, go back into the nursing home once a month, if bed space allows, but we'd have to set it all up in advance.

shipo

Here's the problem with swapping the 5-Speed automatic in V6 Gen7 Accords (and 3G TLs for that matter) for a 6-Speed manual is that the swap isn't for the faint of heart or the light of checkbook. Earlier generations (say Acura CL 6MT into a Gen6 Accord) were reasonably doable, but because of how the electronics work in this generation of cars, a number of folks have started the swap, so far I've only heard of two finished cars where everything worked, and those two cars cost well over $5,000 for the swap.

Slow&Steady

Shipo is right. I know Scotty Kilmer has argued against such because new cars have so many electronics to fool with. Plus my car is a 4-cylinder and I don't have long-term access to a garage and no access to a lift. Just cheaper to find a used 5 speed 4-cylinder and buy that.

b16racereg6

iTrader: (2)

I own a 02 accord with 203k on it. It’s great other then my flex/down pipe being broken it is loud as hell at the moment. I can say this is a great car I picked up for a 1000$ with a 198k on it. It uses a little oil but it also needs a valve cover gasket. The car is great on gas has lots of space is a pleasure to drive. It shifts great even with a bunch of miles I’m just running it until it drops. For that price I would buy that car do a timing belt, water pump and valve cover gasket and run the car. You won’t regret it. Good luck

jfboy

if its a 4cyl car and the transmission shifts well its a good buy.

v6 I would pass on it.

shipo

Meh, I had a 2001 V6 Accord EX which I bought used with 114,000 miles on the clock and drove it to 200,000 before I donated it and the transmission never missed a beat. Simply keep up with the ATF changes every 30,000 miles and it should be good to go for an easy quarter of a million miles.

SJ1978

thanks for the posts to this thread! I will get the car in a month or so. I am curious about the oil....just go with full synthetic?

My Camry has full synthetic. It is nice since it can go for 10K miles without an oil change. Is that the main reason why I should change oils, or are there other benefits to pure synthetic?

Also, to confirm....you suggest the timing belt being changed even if it works now?

lothian

"pure synthetic"
An interesting phrase which I presume means, 'no conventional lubricants in my car'. There are eleventy-bazillion websites--some genuinely credible--that distill and dispel the merits and shortcomings of synthetic, conventional, and "blended" lubricants. I prefer full synthetic because it's an engineered lubricant. Maybe it's more resonant to say, "I use synthetic in my aged Accord for the same reasons you use synthetic in your Camry," and exchange a knowing wink and a nod. Point is, any reputable brand API-rated SAE 5W-30 oil will be fine.

"you suggest the timing belt being changed even if it works now?"
Excellent question. I'll clarify: a timing belt job on that Accord is pending. How soon you do it is up to you. If the seller can provide you even a modicum of documentation that the timing belt was changed (even if it's just parts receipts) then you have a datum from which to do the necessary Honda math: 105k or 7yrs. However, if the seller provides you no meaningful documentation, then you gotta presume a timing belt job is overdue lest, well... Murphy's Law.

Btw...
Doing a "timing belt job" on that Accord is completely within the capacity of a shade-tree mechanic. It's a big job fer sure, and not without its hazards, moments of caution, and need for some special equipment. But if you're diligent and organized; you pre-order new parts and gather the necessary tools; you can follow sequential instructions and have a block of contiguous hours, you can totally do a timing belt job yourself.