AtoZ

M/Y Honda: 95 Ex, Vtec, AT, Abs, 4 Dr, 163K

I'm experiencing a shudder at light throttle. It was suggested in the archives that symptom is caused by clogged up EGR ports, and test to determine whether clogged EGR are the cause is to remove the EGR Hose and plug it. Which EGR Hose are they referring to, they are all over the engine in various places. Are they talking about the hose from the throttle intake tubing that goes right to the EGR valve (the valve by the fuel rail passengers side)? And when you plug the hose, do you also plug the EGR part that the hose was attached to? I'm thinking yes to both, but I only read about plugging the hose. Just trying to pay attention to detail and do the test correctly, because this will be driving test, not at idle.

B18C5-EH2

I'm going to assume you're referring to the 95 Accord EX in your signature, so if it's a different car I'm about to post some non applicable info lol.

Sorry for the crappy reference pics - they're usually much better.

To check for clogged ports you'll need to apply vacuum (with a vacuum pump as seen in the diagram) to the EGR valve - note that you actually apply vacuum to the 90 degree port coming off of the valve, not to the hose in this pic.



This is assuming that you have no check engine code 12 indicating a bad EGR valve.

You can also check to make sure the EGR valve is working by applying vacuum to it directly on the 90 degree elbow that you pulled the #16 hose from, and feel/see/hear if it engages or not. You should have a check engine code 12 if the EGR valve is bad though.

AtoZ

Yes, its a 95 EX Vtec. Your making the wrong assumption and talking about a different test. I have to do a driving test to determine if a shudder symptom while driving is caused by the clogged ports. This does not happen at idle and cannot be determined at idle. It requires a road test. So, I'm not sure if the hose I need plugged is the same one your pic is showing. Back to square one. Pay attention to adjectives.

B18C5-EH2

Wow I'm sensing some attitude from you that is absolutely NOT necessary.

Would you not like to first see if the ports are stopped up? The test I posted does just that.

If you want to be a jerk about me trying to help you then good luck fumbling around trying to fix your car ALONE, because nobody wants to help a jerk.

B18C5-EH2

BTW:

The only testing associated with EGR and actually test driving the car involves warming the engine up until the fans cycle at least once, then driving the car for 10 minutes to simply see if an EGR code 12 comes on from the ECU:



Most everything else EGR TESTING related comes down to various vacuum testing, and checking for continuity, etc. etc. There really is not an actual test driving procedure to check the EGR system itself.

Recheck the HELM manual for any road testing procedures associated with actually testing the EGR system - you shouldn't find any.

Might I remind you that you are the one asking for help here. Don't be so condescending when someone tries to help you, especially when the question you are asking doesn't follow Honda/HELM flow charts.

Now if you are trying to do some test that someone has figured out over the years that tosses the actual EGR testing procedures (from Honda) out the window, then yeah I'll admit I am ignorant there.

AtoZ

No, not at all. I appreciate the help - no attitude. Just rying to make the process more efficient and not waste your time or mine.

No, I absolutely do not want to test those ports that way. I did THAT many moons ago.

I JUST need to know the location of the hose to plug for the shudder driving test, so I can evaluate that as a cause.

alvarado626

lol lol lol

AtoZ

Can someone else please help me here. I tried reasoning with this person but he/she keeps insisting there is no such test. I suppose all the guys at this thread were just making this all up. What more can I do. It is getting me nowhere fast.

Anyway, perhaps someone else knows which hose and part to plug up for the driving test? See this link:

https://honda-tech.com/forums/showth...hlight=shudder

92civlude

Ther is only one hose on the EGR valve. That is the hose you disconnect and plug.

AtoZ

I know that. That is obvious in my first post that I know about the one hose on the egr valve. But this is why I asked the question:

Duane in Japan said this about testing the shudder problem on light throttle while driving"

"... disconnect the EGR vacuum hose and plug it and see if the problem goes away." See > honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2119837&highlight=shudder <

Notice he did not say the egr valve, if he did I'd know where that was. He only said egr vacuum hose without specifying which one, and there are multiple egr vacuum hoses all over that engine, especially at the drivers side.

joe_accord23

its been since 95, so u shuld clean the ports anyway, keep the engine happy!

holmesnmanny

Where are you getting this from? There's only one vacuum hose going to the egr valve.

94EG8

He keeps telling there is no test, because there is no test. There are few people on H-T with as much professional experience working on Hondas that B18C5-EH2, the guy has been working at a Honda/Acura only shop for something like 10 years (and IIRC used to work for a honda dealership before that) And while that doesn't necessarily make someone a good mechanic, I can certainly vouch for Tom knowing his stuff.

AtoZ

Are you on drugs? Take a look at the egr vacuum routing in the under hood labels for these vehicles.

Yes, there is only one to "that" valve but there are like a minimum of three EGR system parts with hoses to them; an EGR Vacuum Control Valve; EGR Control Solenoid Valve; and EGR Valve, not to mention the Evap System Controls. So, please dont waste my time your really not being helpful if your not reading the entire thread. I'm trying to determine which of those three hoses that was plugged up. It may very well be the EGR Valve hose, but I am not going to assume that until I know for sure.

AtoZ

Don't doubt that one bit, and yes, he gave great advice about testing the egr system for clogging. But I think you just gave a quick reply to this thread at without reading it all and then going to those links. I'm not questioning BC18's expertise on anything else but no one knows everything and Duane in Japan has never steered me wrong and has been the only person to suggest this test I referred to. I already know the ports are at least partially clogged, but what I don't know is whether that is the cause of the shudder. And furthermore, when I read the archives, it was suggested that a shudder can even come from a TPS issue -- P Adams mentioned that as a possible cause -- and no one even thought of that possibility. Now IMHO that is a master tech, and when he speaks I listen. He has not chimed in on this one, but my point is that I never even heard of this BC18. I'll stay with who and what I know, all the while giving all due credit to BC18 for his willingness and thoroughness on testing for clogged ports. Perhaps I will have an issue someday, and he might be the one who knows the most about it, and when that day comes, I will be all ears. Can't do more than that.

Until then think about it this way. What is the point of doing the BC18 test twice!? I already did it and know the results -- been there done that. The test Duane suggested is the next logical thing to do. It helped one person discover the cause. So, I cannot see where one thing you said is logical or valid.

B18C5-EH2

First of all I never kept telling you no such test existed. In fact I only stated ONCE that the only test involving a test drive and EGR was part of the flowchart I posted when it comes to Honda's testing for the EGR system. I even conceded that someone must have come up with their own test outside of the testing procedures in the HELM/Honda manual when I said this:

I'm not being smartass when I suggest this, but if Duane in Japan suggested the test why not ask HIM about it via e-mail, IM, etc? You post about this test as if it should be common knowledge, yet after a few days of being at the top of the topics not a single person has been able to elaborate on it for you.

...and?

Are the ports clogged, or not?

I could deduct that they must be clogged if you're trying to do a test that pinpoints whether clogged ports are causing your stumble. If you cleaned the ports then I'd imagine there would be no point in this "driving EGR test" you're trying to find more info for.

I'm just curious why you don't clean the ports anyway? I mean it very well might not be your stumble, but there's no real mechanical reason NOT to clean the ports. you seem like a bright guy with some mechanical abilities, and fortunately your model engine isn't one of the harder ones to clean ports on.

This reminds me of someone who is in desperate need of a tune-up (and refuses to do one) and yet wants to try and see why the car feels sluggish upon acceleration.

The next logical thing to do according to whom? Not according to the manufacturer of the vehicle apparently. I'm not suggesting that people outside of Honda could never come up with a diagnostic procedure, (this happens all the time actually) but I do find it curious that you'd stumble across a test that is evidently half-cocked as it doesn't even explain WHICH hose to plug off, etc. Maybe it does say which hose(es) and you simply missed it?

B18C5-EH2

BTW:

Reading Duane's post you linked, and reading some of the responses that followed his it should have been obvious to you that he means pull off the vacuum hose from the EGR valve itself and plug it off. You're way over analyzing this. Refer back to the pic I originally posted, and unplug that vacuum hose and stuff a bolt in it to do the test Duane in Japan referred to.

AtoZ

Correct. And yes, I am going to see if Duane will tell me.

Dont have the time now, but I plan on doing it asap -- not married, gotta do everything myself. Everyday everything is priority all at the same time. Agree, agree, agree.

It is really far quicker and less involved. If the shudder goes away when and if I do finally discover if a clogged egr system is the cause, and I see that I'm getting "consistent" test results, then I can rule out the tranny, which I am crossing my fingers it isnt. I have an entire thread just on the tranny issue; and one on how to adjust the trans throttle cable (not one reply on that question); I'm all ears if you can offer advice on that. Just trying not to bring up multiple symptoms or causes all at once on one thread.

I didnt miss it. Its says but it doesnt specify exactly. I really pay close attention to the wording in these threads. Too many people make too many assumptions when they think they're communicating. I'm always saying who? what? when? where? So, when I read about "this" egr related hose, all the thread said was to remove the egr hose. So, naturally I thought, which one, there are three egr parts that have hoses to them? I bet that the guy most likely means the egr valve hose BUT I dont want to assume anything. Too many problems when I do that. Its always what your not told that can cause a major problem.

Now your making asumptions, how do you know they did not have PM's between them !? And yes, this does appear to be some test outside the box, what's wrong with that if the tech who gave the advice is correct ... Now back to which hose ?

AtoZ

Since I'm pulling off a hose that means there is going to be an opening in two places, the hose and the part it is pulled off of. So, plug the part too? otherwise its going to be a vacuum leak.

holmesnmanny

If you think the ****ing hoses are clogged then take them off and ****ing clean them out you dumb ****. Don't go calling me retarded for suggesting there's only one hose going to the ****ing egr valve, then turn around and admit that there's one ****ing hose going to the egr valve. Who's the real moron?

-RedneckDave-

Atoz, why don't you just clean the ports and see if that fixes your stumble?

AtoZ

I never said it was stumbling.

AtoZ

Miss, it is quite apparent to me at this point in time that you have a reading comprehension problem. I agreed there is only one hose on that valve but that there are many vacuum hoses on the egr system. Perhaps someday you will learn the difference.

phootbag

I've read this entire thread.

First, I would like to ask the original poster; at what point did you decide that people who work their asses off all day long working on cars have any obligation to report to this website and help rude ******** such as yourself, or anyone for that matter?

I've been a master tech at a Honda dealership for quite some time now and I have never recieved any sort of compensation for any of the assistance I have provided the countless people who use this website. I have never asked for anything in return for my help. But, I refuse to help someone who comes here demanding help and being extra rude on top of that fact.

You, sir, will recieve no such help from me. I suggest you either figure it out yourself or pay a REAL technician to fix it for you.

holmesnmanny

The only thing I stated was that there was one hose going to the EGR valve. That's all I said, no more, no less. You called me retarded even though I am 100% correct. I never mentioned anything about anything else. I think you're the one with the comprehension problem. Seriously.

The funny thing is that you called me a retarded, then basically reiterated the fact that there is only 1 vacuum hose going to the EGR valve. That speaks volumes about your character.

Like phootbag said, go ask someone that knows what they're doing, because clearly nobody here knows what they're doing.