abeaujuin

I just installed a New Brake Master Cylinder. I attempted to bleed it while it was off the car but I just keep seeing bubbles as I pumped it using the hoses that were supplied with the unit.

Now that it is on the car, The brakes feel spongie when the engine is running.
When the engine isn't running it feels really hard. So I attempted to bleed it from the calipers. I started with Right Rear then the Left Rear, then the Front left then the front right. I did this twice and still the brakes feel spongie when the engine is started.

Is there a trick to get this pedal to feel firm while the engine is running? Did I Bleed the calipers in the correct order?

RUBZERK

ttt

deserthonda

you got to bleed the brake master, if you have a pressure bleeder great just loosen the 2 lines going to brake master ..if you got no bleeder have someone pump the brake pedal while you loosen the line at master do it 1 at a time and remember open line while your partner hold pedal down when you open line pedal should sink a bit down when it sinks close line and have your partner pump up the pedal again ,you might have to repeat it several times

RUBZERK

What is the correct way to bleed the brake system ??

Since the car has ABS, does the car have to be running when bleeding the system ??

kaptr1d

bump. id like to know also.

rss_7809

I'm pretty sure you don't need the car to be on to bleed the brakes, but since they're ABS, the peddle will always seem spongie. The brake pedal will always be able to go all the way to the floor when stopped. I'm not positive why, but i know it is true for most ABS applications, including hondas. Also, if you test it while moving, it will still feel spongee because honda brakes tend to be pretty light.

When the car is off, the ABS is not working so the brake fluid will press against the ABS switch in each caliper and stop since the switch is off, making the pedal firm after a few pumps.

Spongeeness with the car on and stopped is not a problem. You need to test while the car is moving, not sitting stopped in drive. If you still feel excessive spongeeness or your pedal goes to the floor while moving, then you need to bleed the system. If you've already done this, I dont know what else to tell you besides you need to talk to a mechanic.

Bleeding the brakes is a two man job (the devices to make it one-man just don't work for me). The idea is to force all air out of the system by pushing excess brake fluid through the lines. Have a friend pump the brake pedal several times. While your friend is holding the pedal down, open the bleeder nut at 1 caliper (It might help to have a hose connected to it to guide the fluid into a container). Close the bleeder after the fluid has slowed to a drip or completely stopped, and allow the brake pedal to return to normal position (it can rise slowly sometimes - don't force it). Make sure there is enough fluid in the master cylinder, so you don't pump air into the lines (exactly what you are trying to fix). It is okay to take the cover off the master cylinder to fill it, but you should put it back before you keep bleeding. Pump the brake pedal and repeat the process.

There's no right order to do the calipers, just be sure to do them all. Hope this helps, and happy bleeding.

Schmitey

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by deserthonda &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you got to bleed the brake master, if you have a pressure bleeder great just loosen the 2 lines going to brake master ..if you got no bleeder have someone pump the brake pedal while you loosen the line at master do it 1 at a time and remember open line while your partner hold pedal down when you open line pedal should sink a bit down when it sinks close line and have your partner pump up the pedal again ,you might have to repeat it several times </TD></TR></TABLE>

Did you even read his post? Cuz it sure seems like he knows what he's doing. Don't be a jackass!

RSS doesn't know what he's talking about! There IS an order to bleeding and HELL NO the brake pedal ain't ever supposed to go to the floor, running or not running!!!

I double checked my helms manual (96 EX) and looks like you're doing everything correctly. You are gonna have to bleed a lot because the air is not at your callipers (bottom) but at the top of your lines. I would suggest getting a little bottle of fluid, attach a piece of vaccuum hose over the bleeder, stick the other end in the bottle and pump away. Make sure your reservoir doesn't run dry and DO NOT RECYCLE THE FLUID (good way to ruin your new seals). Jackass did have one point though, a pressure bleeder might save you some time.



Modified by Schmitey at 9:10 PM 5/1/2005

deserthonda

yo rss what are you talking about man...i dont mean to insult your intelligence but where do you come up with such conclusions ,,,(but since they're ABS, the peddle will always seem spongie. The brake pedal will always be able to go all the way to the floor when stopped. I'm not positive why, but i know it is true for most ABS applications, including hondas. Also, if you test it while moving, it will still feel spongee because honda brakes tend to be pretty light.),,,, a proper brake system with or without abs pedal does not feel spongy and what is this thing about handa brakes tend to be light&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;? ,,,and by the way the pressure bleeder it is the best way to bleed brakes trust me on that one. been using it for many years ,,,and yes there is a proper way to bleed brakes you always start with the farthest bleeder from the master

JimBlake

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by deserthonda &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">... and yes there is a proper way to bleed brakes you always start with the farthest bleeder from the master </TD></TR></TABLE>With ABS you don't always start at the farthest caliper. Order depends on which circuit is likely to push bubbles into which other circuit. So the order tends to be different for different cars, not like the old days where they're all the same. The Helm book for my '98 Accord says LF-RF-RR-LR is the bleeding order.

Schmitey

JimBlake...is there anything you don't know? (and you can quote me on that). Helms for the 96 EX gives the crossover pattern. And I'm assuming the spongy feeling after he starts it up is due to the brake booster finding air still in the lines?

JimBlake

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Schmitey &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">JimBlake...is there anything you don't know?</TD></TR></TABLE>Lots! I've learned a lot on this site, mostly by screwing up & getting flamed for it. ABS bleeding order comes from owning the Helm books for my cars.