canaccord

Check this balance shaft seal retainer for the 90-97 Accords. It seems far better than the usual ones they sell. They have 2 models. Apparently, Honda issued TSBs stating that the shaft seals are to be installed 1.5mm below the face of the oil pump housing and this new retainer has a lip which sticks in 1.5mm to hold the seal. The other retainer they sell holds the seal flush with the housing.

Let me know what you think.

Matt

http://www.chicagosealclamp.com/product.html

canaccord

Correction: the 1035 A retainer is the only one available now since Honda only recommends the seal be recessed 1.5mm so the 1035A retainer has a lip that goes into the bore abt. 1.5mm.

Matt

canaccord

From what I've read from independant mechanics and from the competitors' patents - apparently the Honda retainer doesn't always sit flush with the bore and it is possible that it can bend outward. Also, it does not allow the seal on the timing cover to seal the area where the retainer sits since the retainer goes over the lip of the oil pump cover and prevents the seal on the timing cover to press against this lip.

AND - Honda has issued a TSB in 1999 telling their mechanics to begin setting the shaft seal 1.5mm deeper into the bore. Therefore, the Honda retainer does NOT press against the seal and hold it in since it does not even sit right against the top of the bore in most cases. Chicago Seal has the tool that sets the seal at the proper depth. A couple of other places have the tool too.


This ChicagoSealClamp 1035A actually has a lip that goes into the bore 1.5mm and sits tightly against the face of the seal. Therefore, this retainer actually supports Honda's recommendation of a 1.5mm recess much better than the Honda retainer!

Also, we have to remember that Honda just wanted a quick and cheap fix since they had to fix many cars for free. So, they did not make a retainer that was the best or strongest - just the cheapest. If this retainer of theirs was a permanent solution to the seal popping out then why did they revise the seal procedure a year or two later to say that the seal needed to be driven in further into the bore. What good is a 1.5mm recess if the Honda retainer doesn't even hold the seal in at this deeper position?

I'm not a salesman for this new retainer but I'm impressed with the fact that Paul at Chicago Seal Clamp, who is a mechanic himself, decided to actually make something that does the job right regardless of the extra work needed to install it.

How to : Install seal to revised depth of 1.5mm:

You could also get a flat disc, cut out a 27mm hole in the middle so the shaft can go through (if your installing the seal with the shaft or oil pump housing still in place). This disc should be abt. 45mm-50mm wide. Then put another disc in front of this one with a 27mm hole but between 38 and 40mm wide. This disc should be 1.5mm thick. Then use a large socket or piece of pipe to drive these discs which will push the seal into the bore. The large disc will stop when it hits the face of the bore and will only allow the smaller disc to go into the bore 1.5mm (which is the thickness of the smaller disc.) You can use a cheap seal driving kit which usually has plastic discs of many sizes. Then you can cut out the holes in them to 27mm to fit over the shaft. The smaller disc can be belt sanded or ground down to 1.5mm thick. Even a 1.5mm piece of wood could be glued to the face of the larger disc to push the seal in to the right depth.


Matt

canaccord

Installation of Retainer:

It may be possible to install this retainer with the timing belt and shaft belt still on by using open an open end wrench but I'm not positive.
If the timing belt job is being done then this would be the best time to put this on.
The seal should be pushed in 1.5mm deeper (if it's a newer seal) or it should just be replaced anyways and driven in to the revised depth then the retainer could be put on.

So, as a retro. fit job alone - it's more work than the Honda retainer. I would say 3 hours for a novice and probably 1/2-2 hours for the more experienced -- if it can be replaced with timing/shaft belts still in place. If you have to remove the belts and shaft pulley to install it --then it should just be done when the timing belt job is being done.
If the timing belt and seals are being replaced then it's very easy.

Matt

TouringAccord

Why do you seem to be pushing this product so heavily?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by canaccord &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Also, we have to remember that Honda just wanted a quick and cheap fix since they had to fix many cars for free.</TD></TR></TABLE>

ok, maybe, but how many have seals have you heard of failing since the Honda retainers have been installed?

canaccord

" but how many have seals have you heard of failing since the Honda retainers have been installed?"

I bet few have failed to the point where most of the oil leaked out in a short period of time like what used to happen before the retainers were made. But I have read independant reports and patent submissions for the better made independant market retainers and they said that some seals had worked their way out a bit and caused slow leaking. Remember that the rim of the seal bore is bevelled on the inner edge and so that is perhaps 2mm of bore which is not holding in the seal so if the Honda retainer is not sitting right against the bore face, say by 2-3mm which is common, and if the seal starts sliding out until it hits the retainer -- now the seal has lost 4-5mm of bore wall to old it in when you add the bevelled edge! It would probably leak slowly but the Honda retainer should keep it from falling out. The seal then would have to be replaced much sooner and oil could hit the belts and ruin them. I just find it annoying that Honda would recommend driving in the seal another 1.5mm but still sell us a retainer that not only may not sit against the bore face but certainly does not sit against the seal face at the new depth to keep it there.
I'm not a salesman for this better retainer but since this seal is so important and I'm sick and tired of car companies screwing us I just like to encourage others to use higher quality parts whenever possible.

I will be receiving 20 of these seal retainers for my shop and I will make them available to anyone here who wants one at the price listed on the website plus shipping. They prefer to sell bulk quantities to shops so if you wanted one I suppose getting one from me would be easier. I won't need that many right now anyways. I 'll keep you posted. They should be arriving next week.

Matt

TouringAccord

I see your point if Honda recommended to drive the seal in another 1.5mm why still use the same retainer? But I will always find it hard to believe what a competitor says without seeing proof. In this case, that would be multiple reports of the Honda retainers failing with creditable proof. Just because they have it listed in patent submissions doesn't mean anything, of course they have to make their product stand out above the rest and be totally different in order to obtain the patent number.

I dont think Honda is trying to screw anyone.

I'm not against these new retainers at all, just stating my opinion.

These new retainers aren't overly priced or anything and are about the same price as the Honda retainers so I dont see any reason to not try them, I just wouldn't buy into all the propaganda until I see proof of the Honda retainers failing. for someone trying to improve on something but dont make it seem like the other product is crap or will fail without creditable proof.