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I installed an afpr and some 500cc fuel injectors on my 96 accord. I thought the ecu would compensate for them, but my car is still running really weak and the exhaust smells strongly of gas. My wideband is consistantly reading about 10:1 afr, sometimes going back up to 12:1, but then going back down and low idling again. Does the car just really need a tune or is there something i can do myself?
edit: CEL saves the day again with a low TPS voltage. Will update if this solves the problem.
Last edited by Morgan Reitz; 05-25-2017 at 07:10 PM.
You doubled the injector size and wonder why the car runs rich?
Well i expected it to run super rich for a while, but it never adjusted, it's not even consistent at idle, and it has almost no power. It stalls if I rev it up and then close the throttle too quickly.
That is an increase of 108% in fuel delivery. There is no way a stock ECU will compensate for that. 10-15% maybe, even then it would be touch and go for an engine management system running narrow band O2 sensors to properly adjust for the change. Considering those ECU's will throw a CEL when the STFT and LTFT go +/- 20-25%
Why did you go with such a large injector? Have you done something to the engine to warrant such an increase?
Lag /dead times change too from injector to injector. This will alter the whole fuel map due to the injectors behavior.
You can use simple SAFC VAFC devices to pull the fuel for closed loop operations. They have a percentage maximum injector output reduction.
In the dawn on the laptop you can socket and flash your own tunes on your ECM. Easy , fun, and cool. Crome is free and has plenty of support. Hondata is just awesome.
If you have made modifications to your engine and you feel that you may be running out of injector and you are on a stock ECU with no tuning capabilities. Best thing to do is hook up an OBD2 scan tool that has live data monitoring. Log the short and long term fuel trims, usually shown as STFT and LTFT in percentages. If you see that your ST and LT fuel trims are always over 15% then you could do with a 15-20% larger injector. In saying this, If you have done nothing to the internals of your engine. You will never need a larger injector.
Lag /dead times change too from injector to injector. This will alter the whole fuel map due to the injectors behavior.
You can use simple SAFC VAFC devices to pull the fuel for closed loop operations. They have a percentage maximum injector output reduction.
In the dawn on the laptop you can socket and flash your own tunes on your ECM. Easy , fun, and cool. Crome is free and has plenty of support. Hondata is just awesome.
I agree that adding a piggy back or converting to a tunable OBD1 ECU would be a great option for running 500cc injectors. However, the OP is running an OBD2 ECU and from the sounds of it, really doesn't need 500cc injectors to begin with.
What if he is running 8 lbs of boost from a turbo kit , and then spraying it with a dry EFI controlled 50 hp shot? A 500-550cc injector on preimum pump 93 octane fuel sounds about right in that senario.
What if he is running 8 lbs of boost from a turbo kit , and then spraying it with a dry EFI controlled 50 hp shot? A 500-550cc injector on preimum pump 93 octane fuel sounds about right in that senario.
Well if had gone through all the steps to do a build like that. One would only imagine that he probably wouldn't be running a stock ECU ether.
That is an increase of 108% in fuel delivery. There is no way a stock ECU will compensate for that. 10-15% maybe, even then it would be touch and go for an engine management system running narrow band O2 sensors to properly adjust for the change. Considering those ECU's will throw a CEL when the STFT and LTFT go +/- 20-25%
Why did you go with such a large injector? Have you done something to the engine to warrant such an increase?
I installed a turbo and plan on upgrading parts til it'sabout 250 hp or so.
Lag /dead times change too from injector to injector. This will alter the whole fuel map due to the injectors behavior.
You can use simple SAFC VAFC devices to pull the fuel for closed loop operations. They have a percentage maximum injector output reduction.
In the dawn on the laptop you can socket and flash your own tunes on your ECM. Easy , fun, and cool. Crome is free and has plenty of support. Hondata is just awesome.
I agree that adding a piggy back or converting to a tunable OBD1 ECU would be a great option for running 500cc injectors. However, the OP is running an OBD2 ECU and from the sounds of it, really doesn't need 500cc injectors to begin with.
Yes it's obd2 but I'm running 8 psi right now and I plan on increasing as I go along. My friend happened to have some 500ccs that he could sell me so that's why i'm not running lower ifr.
From your first post you cannot tell what you are working with.
My f23 advice for others too, No intake header exhaust, it doesnt do enough.
If you can grab those rebuilt t3's on a simple cast log with 38mm wastegate.
Grab some silicone couplers and joiners run it directly to the TB
Socket a P28 and Crome flash a SST chip
Tap the pan for 8an return and use a sandwich adapter and 3an feed
400cc ish injectors with lag data , have an injector shop map the lag linear data, send them one injector if needed.
I didnt upgrade fuel pump to the G342SS 255 walbro or use an intercooler in the beginning at 6 psi or whatever, it never made the whole 8 the red spring was rated at.
This will run usually under $1000 total and provide levels of performance increasing the boost as you build it more. Much more output potential than the I/H/E or H22 head swap . Removable , reliable.
When I did the AEM CAI on my accord and SS exhaust , it did not respond the same a GSR. I felt little gains took place with those bolt ons. The turbo did the trick . Performs similar to a Saab 9-3 I thought.
I installed a turbo and plan on upgrading parts til it'sabout 250 hp or so.
Originally Posted by Morgan Reitz
Yes it's obd2 but I'm running 8 psi right now and I plan on increasing as I go along. My friend happened to have some 500ccs that he could sell me so that's why i'm not running lower ifr.
OK so you bolted on a turbo, added 500cc injectors and you are expecting a completely stock ECU to run the engine properly? For what it's worth. The next time you start a thread about your car running rich, or any issues for that matter, you should be sure to include Model, Year, engine and all mods that you have currently done to said engine and vehicle.
If you are on a tight budget I would follow 2001GSRSC's advice. At least that way you can try tuning it yourself.
I would advise to enter the hobby how you can . If you are a diehard, get the new turbonetics kit or those Rotrex superchargers (since Jackson racing doersnt support the F23 wind mill), they whip. Then , Don Qui Oh Tee , your way towards a Hondata S300 or better. Some people want the respect. They paid for the best stuff ,and respect is money "They" say. Disco Biscut to the top performance.
Here this is pic of what I used. No video on youtube of the 2.3 right now, but my GSR is. It wasnt much more than an oil change , plug n play ECM and injectors , Air box removal, Exhaust manifold and B pipe removal and swap in.
Probably 200+ hp on the most unforgiving dynometer. Blue spring to go fast. Dont forget to order the blue 1 bar spring and the fuel pump that goes with it .
It gets better, you can place an 11 by intercooler where the battery is and relocate that in the trunk. Never even remove the bumper or run 2.5" pipe everywhere cutting things. The AC still blows cold.
It is seriously like doubling your horsepower in the bonus round with that blue spring.
Major points being, at 6 psi an inter cooler is not necessary and the stock fuel pump will feed the 6 psi just fine. I did not go looking for its limits. By the time the blue spring was clamped in I had opted for the 255 walbro.
The performance was very similar to a Saab, that is a good thing. My F23 is born from jets.
Nothing worse than spending $1000 on performance parts and needing to convince yourself its better. In ape speak, BWaaah is not as good as Whhoooosh.
You know what would really be awesome, an H22 swap with a Jackson Racing Supercharger. Probably wont fit.
That Eaton roots blower kit is excellent. The pulley system hanging off the side is nothing less than magnificent. Impeller design eliminates rolling turbulence.
Like the Hunt for Red October , when dealing in a submarines, the screw drive impellers leave you undetectable as you move silently through the shark infested waters. Navigating your next move to freedom.
05-25-2017, 06:07 PM
Running way too rich. Help please :)
