dglassmyer

I just finished my F22B1 headswap.
My car is an LX so it was non-vtec and I am having some issues.
The car started right up and runs great, however as I get into higher RPM's it bogs way down.
I am fairly certain VTEC is not engaging.

Before you say search, this has been covered before, believe me, I have searched exhaustively and only came up with more questions than solutions regarding my situation.

The first thing I am unclear of is whether or not I have the correct VTEC solenoid for a 1996 or OBD2 ecu.
I have seen it posted that the 1996-1997 VTEC Accords do not have a pressure switch, mine does.

I have also read that the 1996-1997 VTEC solenoid is supposed to have two wires, one is a ground, and one goes to ECU pin A8.
My solenoid has only one wire and I have pinned it to the ECU at the A8 jumper.

I also have one of the VTEC pressure switch wires running to ECU pin C15 and the other on a solid engine ground.

I could really use some help here getting this VTEC working as my car is running like a dog at higher RPM's.

EDIT:
I just wanted to add, my ecu is a P0H-L02 which is the OBD2 manual vtec ecu.
Here is the link for the ECU pinouts I followed in wiring up my VTEC.
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/r...nda_Accord.php

Then I found this post by Ghost, which suggests there is no VTEC pressure switch.
https://honda-tech.com/forums/honda-accord-1990-2002-2/need-f22b1-vtec-wiring-help-96-accord-2910219/

I hope Ghost chimes in on this one, I could use some advice.

GhostAccord

On the OBD2 Accord the ECU does not use the VTEC oil pressure switch.

You have an OBD1 VTEC valve. It should still work though.

The VTEC solenoid, OBD1 & OBD2, on the Accord is a single wire. The valve body is grounded to the head. So as long as the single wire goes to A8 and the head is grounded to the chassis, it should work. It is the Pressure switch on the OBD1 valve that has two wires.

Don't bother hooking up the pressure switch at all. C15 on the OBD2 ECU does not go to an operational circuit.

Is your CEL on?

If you connect the solenoid wire to the battery (+) do you hear the valve click?

dglassmyer

Ghost thanks so much for chiming in, this vtec stuff is so new to me.

I will pull the vps wire I have going to my ecu.
My vtec solenoid does click when tested with a 12 volt source.

And I did have a cel for a moment, it was a code 21 for the vtec solenoid but I cleaned it out, cleared the code and it hasn't come back.

Would having the pressure switch wired into the ecu prevent vtec from engaging though?

GhostAccord

I wouldn't think so.

What RPM is it that you start to get the hesitation?

You could try and hook up a small indicator light to the solenoid wire to see if the ECU is closing the circuit. Ether that or check the continuity of your wire to make sure it hasn't shorted out somewhere. If the solenoid is good and the wire is good the ECU is the next circuit in line.

dglassmyer

I like the idea of the light inline with the wire to the solenoid, I could hook that up inside the cabin and look down to see if it turns on.
It really hesitates around 4000 and up, its really doggish from there on.

gogydm

I recently did that swap on a SE. How did you connect the VTEC wire to A8 on the ECU? And try it with a volt meter. Drive the car and have someone hold a voltmeter on A8 and ground somewhere on the chassis and see if and when it shows 12V.

dglassmyer

Thanks for the suggestion.
I have several ecu pins leftover from my tcm harness, I used to be automatic, so I removed them, then slid them into the harness side connector.
They fit like all the other stock connections so I doubt any loose connection issues are present.

dglassmyer

OK well I hooked up my multimeter on my commute in this morning and sure enough I'm getting a strong 12 volt reading going to the vtec solenoid at roughly 2400 rpm's.
Its good to know the ecu is OK.
Now Im thinking it must be a mechanical issue with either a lack of oil pressure to the rocker arm/synchronizing pistons or bent timing plates or something.
Does anyone know a good method for testing the vtec engagement on the rocker assembly.
Any suggestions from people with experience would be great.

dglassmyer

I just pulled my valve cover and noticed this open port that appears to connect to the vtec solenoid.
Is this how it should be?

EDIT: Sorry for the huge pic, and it turns out thats just a relief valve that should only be plugged when testing the rocker arm synchronization manually with air pressure.

dglassmyer

So I have been doing some reading in my Helms and the "Official why VTEC doesn't engage" thread over in the Prelude section of this forum, and have more or less figured out how to test the mechanical aspects of vtec rocker arm function.

What I need to do is pull my valve cover, remove the sealing bolt from the vtec oil passageway and attach an air tool to pressurize the system to roughly 60 psi.
This is to simulate the hydraulic pressure oil would provide with the engine running and the vtec solenoid engaged.

What I need though is some sort of fitting to plumb an air line into the port in the cylinder head.
Does anyone know of what would work for this test?
I know I am getting really deep into this and not alot of people will have experience here but I could really use some help.

dglassmyer

Well I think I figured out what my problem is.

I have been doing alot of reading and I realized I left the oil control orifice in the block when I installed my new head.
From what I understand this will limit the amount of oil pressure to the head, therefore not allowing vtec to engage.

I know there is a second oil control orifice in my motor now, underneath the cam holders in the B1 head.
Does anyone know if I could get away with removing that orifice to get vtec working?

Im fairly certain I'll be pulling the head off again but if I could just pull the oil control orifice in the head, it would save me another new head gasket.

GhostAccord

Doh.... You'll need to remove the Non VTEC oil control orifice from the block.

dglassmyer

Yeap, that's what I thought I was going to hear.
I would feel like kicking myself harder than I already do but at least I know what the problem is now.

GhostAccord

Nice work figuring it out.

Wish you the best of luck getting everything back up and running

dglassmyer

Thanks good sir, I should have her done this weekend, so look for a very immature video of me hauling *** with my cars veetach going bwaaaah when shes all put together

gogydm

Oh man nice that you figured it out. Honestly I thought you took it out, didn't want to insult you by asking if you took it out or not... You seem to know your stuff.

dglassmyer

Thanks man, and yeah I usually do for the most part, but this is my first dealings with anything vtec.
BTW I wouldn't have taken it as an insult good sir as im perfectly capable of making silly mistakes as this ordeal points out

gogydm

Just saying man, I didn't want to sound like a smartass. I am no professional unlike Ghost over here, but I did just complete this head swap a month ago. You will be surprised of how much your fuel economy will improve (if you care about that). I also when ahead and put a F23 intake manifold on the car and it really brought out some torque in the low RPMs, plus it's a really easy swap.

dglassmyer

OK well I pulled the head today, removed the oil orifice, put everything back together and I finally have vtec working properly.
However all is not well in the world of my new engine.

I am getting what feels like a misfire between 4500-5500 rpms.
Its only really noticeable in 3rd, 4th and 5th gears as I rev through gears 1 and 2 too quickly too notice.
My first thought was the miss kind of feels like valve float, but that doesn't make much sense to me as my Delta 260 grind has the same max lift as the factory cam.

It also feels like it could be ignition related.
I pulled the distributor cap and the terminals do look worn and I will replace it but wanted to get some more feedback on what else it could be.

I should also mention that I have no check engine codes and the car is running great except for the high speed miss.
Suggestions?

GhostAccord

What does Delta say about tuning for that cam? I know that some manufacturers say that they will work with stock ECU. just wondering if a tune might clear that up?

How old is your ignition coil & ignitor?

dglassmyer

The 260 cam doesn't require any tuning.
And they're pretty old, im sure they're factory original.

dglassmyer

Ok I just pulled my ignition coil and tested it per the service manual specs.
The primary winding resistance was 0.8 ohms, secondary winding resistance at 16k ohms, and I have continuity between the A and C terminals.
So that takes care of the ignition coil.

I might as well check the plug wire resistance as well.
And since my engine runs well I don't see how I could really test the ICM for performance related issues.
The only tests I know of will test for battery voltage and basic function, which it is certainly doing.

@ Ghost, is there a way to check the ICM in a way that could uncover misfiring causes that I'm just not aware of?

GhostAccord

No...they only have the function test. that being said, my manual states that if everything tests OK in the system, the ICM would be the part to replace. Even if it tests OK. That is in a no start issue though. Your miss could also be contributed to a fuel system or exhaust issue.

I would test the wires and look at the plugs and move on to testing one of the other systems. Going through these tests as you are doing is cheaper than throwing parts at problems. However, it can be very time consuming. I would look at the FPR if you don't find anything in the ignition.

Did you do a compression test after the head swap by any chance? Just wondering.

dglassmyer

Ghost, I have not performed a compression test yet, I'm just assuming its all good but in the interest of thoroughness I will do one just to be certain.
All of my plug wires were reading between 5 and 7k ohms resistance which is far below the factory threshold of 25k so it looks like I'm good there as well.

Hmm the fpr, that's an interesting thought, I really hadn't even considered a fuel issue.
Ya know what they say it's always the last thing you suspect
Ill look into fuel system tests and let you know what I turn up.

dglassmyer

Ghost, I performed a compression test and as I assumed my numbers are good.

#1 - 170
#2 - 170
#3 - 165
#4 - 170

I also replaced the fuel filter, what a great time and seafoam fogged the induction system through the PCV vacuum supply.
I swear my neighbor thought my car was on fire when I fired it up.

I am still having the same misfire though I haven't looked at the fpr yet.
Just for the heck of it I plugged my non-vtec ecu back in and drove my car.

The way it drives with the non-vtec ecu in is like a super exaggerated form of his it drives with the vtec ecu in.
I hope that made sense, I kind of think I may not be getting vtec engagement on ALL cylinders.
I will look into testing fuel pressure next weekend I just don't have available cash for a fuel pressure tester right now.

This would be really frustrating if I didn't love working on my car so much
Hope everyone's having a great Sunday, its beautiful in north Texas.