JimTrail

Hello Honda Tech Forum;

Question. If the wrong Oxygen Sensor is installed will it work for a little while then stop working?

I had an issue that I started a thread on Honda Tech forum a couple of days ago. The topic two days ago was the price of an Oxygen Sensor.

Need estimate for: Oxygen Sensor, Before Catalytic Converter

I have got the same issue but today there is a different topic.

A mechanic told me that the Oxygen Sensor, the one before the Catalytic Converter, was bad. He told me that my car was made for California emissions standards and that a new Oxygen Sensor including installation would cost over $400.

A different mechanic told me that there are what Honda calls "low emissions Oxygen Sensors," "very low emission Oxygen Sensors," and "super-low emission Oxygen Sensors" and that mine was a low emission [i.e. less expensive] Oxygen Sensor and that the cost would be $200 installed.

He installed the new sensor and started the engine. The light was out. I drove about eight miles and picked up a passenger. We went to one store and I stopped the engine. We came out and started the car and drove to a restaurant. We came out of the restaurant. I started the car and drove for about one mile and the "Check Engine" light came back on.

There was a total of about 12 to 15 miles driven before the "Check Engine" light came back on.

Does that sound like we got the wrong Oxygen Sensor - the lower cost one instead of the over $400 one - or does it sound like the other Oxygen Sensor [the one after the catalytic converter] might have just gone out?

The car has got around 250,000 miles on it and I have been told that both Oxygen Sensors tend to go out at about the same time.

lazlong

What brand did you use? Hondas are pretty finicky about sensors, injectors and plugs. I would only use OEM or DENSO. Both of which are about $130 (don't ever go back to that first mechanic).

Usually the sensor doesn't work at all- right away. I'm thinking either the other sensor is bad or the cat is bad, that's a lot of miles.

JimTrail

The second mechanic didn't tell me the brand. The price was about $200 installed so that would make the $130 seem in the ballpark.

What do you mean the sensor doesn't work at all right away? How long does it take it to start working?

Both mechanics put a testing device on the car. Both said that it was the first [i.e. before the catalytic converter] oxygen sensor.

The catalytic converter was mentioned in the discussions with both mechanics but neither of the mechanics mentioned anything about the catalytic converter being bad.

ej7attack

go to autozone and get the codes read for free and let us know. we will help you diagnose the right problem. shops charge ridiculous amounts for bs.

lazlong

Yes, go get the codes and post back.

If it was the wrong sensor it won't work or work right from the beginning.

Also, I would recommend Lee's Specialties for your future needs. He's been working on Hondas for 20 years or so and I wouldn't hesitate to go there again. Go 640 to Clinton Highway, take a right at the first light (Tillery) and it's right there on the right.

holmesnmanny

I'm guessing that the check engine light isn't for a bad oxygen sensor. Like everyone else said, have autozone pull the code and let us know what it is.

And whatever you do, don't go back to that other shop. I would write a negative yelp review also.

JimTrail

Thanks everyone for the information.

I will go to the AutoZone today.

Thanks again.

JimTrail

I went to the AutoZone. They did a diagnostic check. Their instrument said that the top oxygen sensor was faulty. It also said that there could be other things that may be causing the check engine light to come on.

The technician there said it was the oxygen sensor before the catalytic converter. That is the same one the mechanic the other day replaced.

95accordCE6

Ok, autozone employees aren't techs and their "code reader" doesn't just say what to replace...just to throw that out there. It is possible that the sensor is faulty yes, however I would check into why there is a lean condition just to be safe, such as a small vacuum leak, misfire, exhaust leak prior to sensor etc...since parts get pricey quick

holmesnmanny

Go somewhere where they will scan your car for codes. You dont need some autozone noob trying to magically tell you what code you have.

JimTrail

95accordCE6, holmesnmanny,

Thank you for responding to my post. I appreciate the information.

On the AutoZone ticket where it says:

"Engine vacuum leak or misfire - repair"

and

"Low fuel pressure - fuel pump defective"

What could be misfiring? And are they talking about the gasoline fuel pump that pumps gas from the tank?

The car still seems to be running okay so I am starting to doubt it's the oxygen sensor or the catalytic converter.

MAD_MIKE

That list of issues is what would could cause the code to be set. It does not mean that IS what is happening.

If you have an exhaust leak before the O2 or close by shortly after it there will be false air making the sensor read incorrectly.

You will need to verify there is no exhaust leak, or damage to the wire harness.

And Bosch senors, along with most generic beer can sized ones are worthless out of the box.

Use Denso, NTK, Delco/Delphi.

DCFIVER

If it is a CA emissions vehicle then you likely have an Air Fuel ratio sensor in front and not an O2 sensor. AF sensors are typically much more expensive than conventional O2s. Under your hood there is a sticker called the VECI (vehicle emission controls information) This sticker will tell you if the vehicle is CA emissions compliant vehicle and it will also tell you if you have an AF sensor or conventional O2.

holmesnmanny

Look at the engine code on the front side of the engine block next to where the tranny mates up. If it says f23a1 or f23a5 then you got the correct upstream sensor in the 13075 however if your engine is f23a4 then you got the wrong upstream. You need the 13493.

If you got the correct upstream sensor, then I suppose they could have been installed backwards.

The only other possibility is there is a wiring issue. If you have the correct sensors and they are installed correctly, I would check the wiring from the oxygen sensor connector back to the respective ecu connector. In very rare instances the ecu could be bad.

Also, it's best to use Denso oxygen sensors as Bosch are notorious for not working right in Hondas. Denso makes the oxygen sensors for Hondas.

lazlong

There's only a handful of possibilities:
- The sensor was bad out of the box
- There's a vacuum leak
- Fuel filter or pump needs replacing
- There's a break in the wire between the sensor and ECU
- The ECU is bad

JimTrail

Thanks everyone for responding to my question. I appreciate the help.

I think that the problem is resolved.

I took the car back to the mechanic. He connected the electronic testing box to the car and did a more detailed test this time.

The electronic testing box was about 12" wide x 9" high x 3" thick. The front of it was a plastic computer screen.

He tested the new sensor and said it was working okay. He said it might be a broken wire between the sensor and [I think he said] the computer box.

The mechanic turned the check engine light off using the electronic testing box.

Anyway, he looked at the air filter and it was dirty. He said to 1). get a new air filter. He also said to 2). get a bottle of Chevron Techtron fuel injector cleaner. Also, he said to 3). get a tank full of a higher grade of gasoline instead of regular.

The mechanic said that the check engine light coming on was probably due to just a dirty fuel system.

I did all of the above. The air cleaner had not been changed in a long time. The rubber seal at the front was worn and broken.

He said that the light may come back on. That's been a week ago and it has not came back on. Hopefully, it won't.

Thanks again.

holmesnmanny

Interesting. It could very well have been the air filter. Lets hope thats the end of it.

DCFIVER

Run fast and far from that "mechanic." Not only is he using dated ,obsolete equipment,he also has no idea what he is talking about.....

hondamark35

x2. he's perpetuating common car myths and misinformation. there's no telling what he'll say wrong next...