2171USMC

Ok, having some strange issues with 94 Accord Ex (automatic). Little back story. A month and a half ago or so starter went bad on my vehicle. I replaced it with a refurb from O'Reillys but it squealed when I start up. I replaced it several times but same result. So a couple weeks ago I buy a New starter (not a Refurb) from NAPA. I put it in - no start. I take it to O'Reillys (yes because NAPA is 30 min away, OReilly's is 5, live rural). They say it's bad. So I end up taking it to NAPA, they test it, I watch it, it works fine. Ok bring it back, put it back in and same result. I kind of give up for about 30 min and start thinking about ignition. I have a lot of keys on my key ring and I go to test via continuity with wire harness by the inside fuse box, I notice it's intermittent with continuity on the White Wire and the Yellow Wire (turn the ignition from II to III and letting it go back). So I take the Accord Key off and try it and bingo. Hook the battery back up and fires right up. Awesome right?! I drive it for a couple days until I get home (i noticed leaving work it was acting funny trying to start). I stop the car and decide to try to restart it. Nothing. I get dash lights, interior lights. The headlights aren't dim, etc. So I *** with this thing for an hour, batter sits at 12.60V, tried to track down what's causing to no avail. Wife suggests jumping it with her Mountaineer. So we do and fires right up. I test the alternator with DVM, holds at 14.7ish volts even with head lights on and stereo/amp etc. I ran it for about an hour. Runs for fine for a day until leaving for work this past Thursday. No start. A coworker of mine comes out and we look at it for a bit. Try jumping it. Nothing. Didnt have DVM on me. sigh. But he borrows my ratchet extension and crosses the 12V terminal and the signal wire on the Starter. It tries to crank obviously so I place the key in the II position while doing this and it starts up. So the past couple days I would randomly go out and fire it up just to see. Today, I fired it up, drove it to the store, picked up a few things. Got back in, it started although kind of struggling (just briefly). I get it home, shut it off and try to restart it. Again no crank. I get voltage across the starter fuse/relay (measuring both sides of the fuse) in the engine relay box. I am at a loss. So I am thinking the ignition switch is bad but could be a number of things.
Anyone have suggestions? Am I on the right track with the ignition?

BTW battery is brand new as of March, took it to the Idiots at O'Reillys they did a load test and it was fine (although my faith in them is pretty low).

Also checked ECU fuses too.

holmesnmanny

Starters aren't really going to squeal when starting. It's more likely you got a loose serpentine belt. Instead of saying starting, you should be more specific and say it's not cranking if it's not cranking. Not starting could mean it's not cranking or it could mean cranking but not starting.

MAD_MIKE

When you pulled all your key off the key ring and the car started normally, that shows that the ignition switch is most likely worn out and making intermittent contact.
Remove the lower cowling on teh column, remove the switch from the tumbler, inspect hte switch. If the contacts appear worn(and they probably are with the intermittent contact issue) replace the switch with a new one. Rockauto has them for ~$30 US +S&H.

2171USMC

It was the starter. The pinion teeth were slightly shorter compared to a new one. The new starter doesn't squeal (from the starter area) whereas the refurbished ones, plural, did. The belts are on the other side of the engine.

2171USMC

So I ended up checking at 7:45 PM PST and the car starts. So funky. So how do I get the switch out with those shear bolts on and that collar on the steering column? I popped off the steering cowlings the other day just didn't want to pull take those bolts off without replacements.

On the the other hand, the fact that it's cooler out and it started, is there a remote possibility that the main relay is screwed? I know different symptoms but isn't the wiring to the MR in line with the ignition? Only two components at this point I can think of effecting my starting after eliminating (I think) everything else.

holmesnmanny

Sounds like you were just buying incompatible starters. I have never in my life heard of a starter squealing, and for you to have "plural" amount of the same starter squealing due to it not being the correct length means the starters themselves were not compatible.
Not sure where you were buying them but I'm quite curious.

2171USMC

O'Reilly's. I had to go to three separate stores to get three separate refurbs. I was afraid eventually it was going to start chipping teeth off the flex plate.

Also Mad Mike I don't see the actual switch at Rock Auto. I believe the part # is REPH506202.

MAD_MIKE

You are looking at the steering column lock and key cylinder bolts, that is NOT what you want.

On the underside of the column on the backside of the key cylinder is the actual ignition switch. It is a plastic disc shape with wires coming off it. It will be held on with a couple of screws.
You want to look at this...

2171USMC

Yes, that is what I bought yesterday, should have it tomorrow. But I thought I had to remove that collar that holds in the entire cylinder, switch and all. I didn't see an easy way to remove the switch without taking off the shear bolts and collar. Even my Chilton says I have to take that ignition collar off. I have no doubts others have found a work around I just don't see it. The one screw that goes on the switch (seen in the pic above) is blocked by said collar (or whatever it's called).

BTW could not find that actual switch on RockAuto even though you lifted the pic from there.

holmesnmanny

You just want the ignition switch. It plugs into the dash fuse box assembly on one side and attaches to the steering column with two screws on the other side.

1994 HONDA ACCORD 2.2L L4 Ignition Starter Switch | RockAuto

The part you are talking about includes that part but also includes the lock cylinder and assembly as well.

1994 HONDA ACCORD 2.2L L4 Ignition Lock Cylinder | RockAuto

You can tell the difference by the price difference. You only need that part when you can't get the key out or the lock cylinder doesn't turn at all.

2171USMC

Yeah I get that. I ordered the switch, not the entire cylinder lock switch assembly,wire, harness, etc deal. Big difference in price but I could swear the switch itself is held in by three screws no?

2171USMC

So it's not the switch. Replaced it (and it look like it had been replaced already). Started up drove it about 40 min straight, go home and shut the car off, immediately tried to start it, dead or no crank. I noticed when it did this the other day and I tested the signal wire while trying to start it, that I was only getting 5.8+/- volts on the signal wire to the solenoid.

Edited: Ok just now, crossed the signal post on the solenoid to the 12v on the starter. It engages. So I go to start the car, sluggish turn over but it does turn over.
I am baffled to WTF is going on and how to troubleshoot it.

Does anyone know where the signal wire comes from? I get no CEL so I am thinking it has nothing to do with ECU?

2171USMC

So ended up putting old refurb back in. Starts right up (squealing and all) but starts up. So I am thinking after all of this, the starter solenoid is just intermittent. Coil(s) have a dead spot? I dunno.

MAD_MIKE

There should be battery voltage at the solenoid when turned to III(Start).
If the battery has massive voltage drop it could be time for a new one, but before doing that, make sure it is not covered in battery acid/gunk/fuzz that could be dead shorting/draining the battery. Ideally you would take it out, clean it off and clean the battery tray off. Any liquid is most likely residual battery acid. If you have a coin-op car wash, spray down the battery/battery tray area with high pressure soap wand to get the majority of the acid off. Put a charge on the battery and verify it is holding.
If the solenoid voltage is a massive voltage drop only, then you will need to trace back to where the voltage drop is.
Verify voltage from and to the ignition switch when cranking.
Verify voltage from feed.
If there is damage or an added security/audio component tapped into the starting circuit then that could be the source of the voltage drop.
Recheck the battery connections are clean and tight.
Verify battery is fully charged and holding a charge. 12.4Volts.
Verify all grounds and bonding jumpers are undamaged and have clean/tight connections.
Verify there are no added components that may be on when cranking.

dwllama

I had a reman starter once that looked fine and would test fine on the machine but one of the bolts where wires attached was physically loose (don't recall which one it was years ago) that would cause an intermittent start. You might check those on your new starter. Out of curiosity do you know what part number you have on the starters that are squealing?

2171USMC

I have done most of this, the battery is brand new, no corrosion but took it back in a week ago, checks out good. As I said, took out the new starter and put back in the refurb, squealing on start one. That one fires up every time. I got 11.8 +/- volts to the signal wire when it was disconnected from the solenoid. I removed the stereo via fuse to make sure nothing was killing the voltage, was getting same results.

I ended up going back to NAPA to order another new one. They won't have it till roughly Thursday due to the holiday, in the mean time I'll run it with the refurb. Find out next weekend if I was correct or need to do a bit more digging but at this point have nearly eliminated all other possibilities and this didn't start until literally putting the new one in.

2171USMC

It's this one here, the one that squeals

Ultima R612431A - Starter | O'Reilly Auto Parts

The new non remanufactured/refurbished one
https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/NNE4N6116

2171USMC

Final update: Returned the New Napa starter for another New one. Installed, same thing. No turnover no nothing. Ended up going to Pick n Pull and pulling a starter from a 96 with 117K miles on it. Installed it this morning. Starts up great, no squeal, no problem. FYI for any one that has an issue like this in the future.
I don't know why but I do know the O'Reilly Remanufactured starters (I went through 3) caused squealing and the NAPA brand New starter(s) didn't work for whatever reason.
Thanks for everyone's help

holmesnmanny

I bought a Pure Energy reman for my 06 Civic that went bad at only 95k and have now gone 90k more miles on it with no issues whatsoever. For my Civic it was only 40 + 40 core and at rockauto you just go into the account section and print out a label for the core return and slap it on the same box your new one came on and drop it off at Fedex and you'll get the core back in about a week. Looks like for your accord it's only $56ish. They will deduct about $6.99ish from your $21.90 core and give you the rest back.

http://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/h...ter+motor,4152

use 6262993645519067 for your coupon code in the "how'd you hear about us" box for a 5% discount