TouringAccord

You're welcome

I'm not sure to be honest.

yes

Again, I'm not sure. I would fix that first though since you know it's broken.

Steve Z

Is the procedure the same for a B2 non vtech? My 95 Accord LX is coming due for timing belt change.

TouringAccord

yep

ivey_usmc

Great thread. It helped out alot!

TouringAccord

Thank You

mister_two

Changed the timing belt and water pump on my 2000 Accord SE F23A4, having problems with the last step, bleeding air from the coolant. In addition to all the normal replacement parts I also replaced the thermostat.

With the car off and the temperature **** on max heat and fan on level 1 I filled coolant thru the radiator cap. I cracked the bleeder open on top of the thermostat housing and coolant/air is suppose to come out? When I see coolant come out I am suppose to close the bleeder valve? I did these steps. When I start the car it will warm up and then the idle with bounce - first it was a slow bouncing idle, after a few minutes as the rpm drops it turns into a quick bouncing idle. My radiator cap is off at this point. I get heat in the vents. The temperature gauge goes to 1/2 way like normal and stays there. I waited a long time but the two fans behind the radiator never comes on - the only time it would come on is if I turn the A/C on. Also, I get a check engine light on the dash. Did not have this before the timing belt job.

The bouncing idle should indicate I have air trapped in the coolant, right? Would it help if I jack up the front of the car to bleed the air from the coolant? Also should the bleeding of air be done with car running or off? I read conflicting answers to this. I tried squeezing the upper radiator hose near the radiator cap to bleed air from the system but I guess there's still air trapped in the coolant.

Any suggestions?

holmesnmanny

When you put the thermostat in make sure you put the jiggle valve pointing straight up towards the sky or you can do like I do and just cut off the jiggle valve as well.

mister_two

I'll check for this when I get home. I remember reading that in the Haynes manual but not sure if I remember to do it or not. Opening the housing is gonna be messy with all the coolant draining out again.

mister_two

Moved the jiggly thing in the thermostat to the top and reinstall, still not working. Still get a quick bouncing idle, radiator fans do not come on and still have the CEL. I think I have to figure out why the fans are not coming on when idling, perhaps this will solve the other issues?

I have filled coolant to the top of the radiator and to the top line of the reservoir. Tried to bleed all the air from the bleeder at the top of the thermostat housing - I do see coolant coming out of the bleeder hole with a clear hose attached. But it's hard to tell if there are any air bubbles coming from the hole. I have tried squeezing the upper radiator hose to purge the air at the radiator cap filling hole. Also raised the front of the car while doing all this.

This morning before work I unhook the fan switch at the thermostat housing and jumped the wires, the two fans DO come on. Next step is to test for ohms at the switch itself. I'll do that when I get home tonight.

Any other ideas?

TouringAccord

have you retrieved the code from the CEL?

mister_two

Not yet. I could drive it to a local Autozone to have it read.

Another thing I was thinking of trying is jumping the fan switch to have it run all the time for now and tried burping the coolant system with the fans on. Wonder if that would make any difference.

holmesnmanny

Ok, next up, take the thermostat completely out, put it back together and see if it still does it.

mister_two

Okay. I think/hope it's fixed. What finally did it I cannot be 100% sure but it might have been as simple as driving the 2 miles to the Autozone that finally purged all the air from the coolant system - is that possible? Before that I replaced the radiator fan switch I bought at Advance Auto. Still the fans didn't come on - or so I thought. I decided to drive to Autozone to retrieve the CEL code. While driving the 2 mile I had the heat on max and the A/C on - because I thought that was the only way the fans would come on. The car drove fine, no idle surge/bounce, the temp was pegged at the 1/2 way mark and didn't move at all. The CEL was P0505. I drive back home and just before I got home I turned the temp to cool and I turned the A/C off. When I got to my driveway I finally heard the fans come on . I have a theory that this car just takes a LONG time for the fans to come on at idle - I am sure having the heat at max doesn't help with that respect. I disconnected the negative power to reset and the CEL is gone. I test drove it for about 15 mins and everything is normal: heat, A/C, temp gauge, no idle problems, no CEL.

Now back to this topic. First I want to thank TouringAccord for this wonderful DIY AND for his upkeep of this thread by helping everyone with questions. Great job. My Accord is a 2000 SE 4 cylinder F23A4. My mechanic experience is only baisc maintenance like oil changes and brake jobs never tackle anything like a timing belt job before. My biggest debate after deciding to do this was whether to use OEM parts or not. In the end I decided to go with the GATES timing belt kit which included the 2 tensioners and the 2 belts. I bought all the parts from rockauto.com The water pump was a Bosch. The parts came out to be about $150. The tools were, of course , the crankshaft holding tool I got from ebay for about $28 and the 1/2 drive breaker bars and the 20 inch extension from Pep Boys. Those were the only special tools I didn't have already. Like someone else mentioned the job calls for primarly 10, 12, 14 mm sockets/wrenches, the more the merrier. Also you need a REALLY DEEP 17mm socket for the mount. The one I had barely reached the end and it didn't allow for the extension to fit on the socket as snugly as it should but I managed to get it off. Also, the GATES kit included a very descriptive explanation of how to install the belts and noted all the necessary timing marks for the job. A thumbs up to the GATES kit and the pamphlet to do the job. Also when putting the alternator back in, install the adjusting bolt at the bottom before trying to install the top mounting nut. I couldn't get the adjusting nut to go thru with the top mounting bolt installed.

Good luck to everyone attempting this job.

holmesnmanny

It happened because the jiggle valve stuck closed and wouldn't open up capturing an air pocket. You never did say the car was going to overheat so I guess we shoulda known that you were overanxious about the fans not coming on instead of just waiting for them to.

mister_two

That jiggle valve was a factor also, thank you for reminding to check the position. When I opened up the housing the jiggle valve was pointing at the 10o'clock position so I moved it to the correct 12o'clock position pointing at the sky.

Yes, I was probably impatient with the fans but I really did let it idle for a LONG time and it never came on (from a cold start with the heat at max), even after reaching normal operating temperature. Although, again, the car never at any point overheated but the fans never came on. When I test drove it in my neighborhood for about 10 mins I pulled over and let it idle to check for the fan operation - with temp **** at cool and the A/C off - it took about 3-4 mins for the fans to finally come on. And the fan only ran for about 10-20 seconds. Who knows, maybe the F23A4 has a really efficient cooling system

I drove it to work this morning and everything seems normal. Now I have to investigate the front end clunk when going over bumps.

djkurious

Lower Ball joints or tie rods would be my guess.

TouringAccord

You're welcome

glad the write-up helped you and that you were able to get the car running properly

mister_two

Which one is easier to tackle ? I'll start with that one.

TouringAccord

outer tie rod is easier but it is always best to properly diagnose a problem before throwing parts at it.

and to keep this thread on topic please search for how to properly diagnose your issue and if you aren't able to find your answer or you have further questions please post a thread.

mister_two

After this job I notice - at startup only - the engine makes a quick squeal/squeak sound during startup for perhaps 1/2 to 1 second. Planning on checking the P/S and alternator belts first. I know the DIY says these belts should have a deflection of 1/2 inch. Should I try tighten, or loosening the belts to test, sometimes it's not easy to gauge the 1/2 deflection. When a belt squeaks does it usually mean it's too tight or too loose? Thanks.

TouringAccord

when a belt squeaks it's slipping, so it's too loose

MAD_MIKE

When bleeding the coolant system, make sure when you crack the bleeder open that a solid stream of coolant comes out. If it spurts not all of the air has been removed.

MaxAttack!

First of all, amazing write-up, TouringAccord! I'm in the process of replacing the seals, but I am having the worst time with the camshaft seal. I tried prying it out and it's literally disintegrating, to the point that I think my best option is to scratch it out with a screwdriver.

The awl didn't work, just went in and came right back out. Trying to pry it out with a screwdriver was equally futile. Any ideas?!

mrules45

I already started a thread for this, but I figure I might as well post it here as well. After I did this procedure my car has been almost impossible to start. The dash lights flash and it starts violently. I also have a CEL and have yet to see my rad fans kick in. Also, when I rev the engine it sounds strange like its jumping. Any ideas?

TouringAccord

Thank you

It's never the best option to scratch it out with a screw driver, that will without a doubt create more problems.

If the awl didn't work then most likely you didn't make it through the thin piece of metal behind the rubber face of the seal. If you don't pierce that you won't have anything to pry on. If that metal piece has come apart from the seal then I guess my only suggestion would be to keep picking at it and remove it piece by piece all the while making sure to not scratch the shaft or the outside mating diameter.