SonnyBlk

Hey guys, this isn't my first time here, i just used my gmail to login so its not showing my post history...

anyway, I am working on a 95 Accord EX that has a f22b swap in it.. Well the tranny was bad so i replaced it with one from a 93 EX.. Well i used the existing torque converter (i know, i know, not smart) well then it started dropping out of gear within a few seconds of driving as well as having the "noise" in park/netural (which i have searched and led me to believe it was a bad torque converter) so i got one from a 94-96 accord.. well it doesnt line up with the bolt holes on the flex plate. the "new" TC is too small.. (just a hair).

So my question is which flex plate do i need to find? Because the motor should be from a 94-97 so it should have had the required FP for the 94-96 TC that i picked up. right?

So if anyone has any documentation or knowledge of FP/TC bolt hole measurements that would be great.

Thanks in Advance!!

SonnyBlk

okay.. think i might be onto something.. The block is stamped F22B.. that would be a 92-96 Prelude (even tho its a SOHC VTEC, maybe someone kept the F22B1 head on it.. I dunno) but that would make sense as to why the 94-97 TC isnt lining up.. I need to the A FP for a 94-97 Accord.. or off of a B1 motor..

Can anyone verify? haha
Thanks again.. im loosing hair on this.

MAD_MIKE

Different car weights and gear ratios will require different stall speeds. Not sure what models have what size TC and drive plate(Hondas name for the flex plate). I can check the busted LX trans, but I'm pretty sure there were no markings on either the TC or the drive plate.

Can you measure the TC or the driveplate diameter?

SonnyBlk

Hey Mad Mike, I was hoping you would chime in on this, Thank you!

Yea, i can measure both of them, currently (as i type) they are still on the car.. but i will drop the trans again and pull off both and measure.. I have the TC that came with the car and its measuring 10 3/4"... (on the bolt-up side)

And the TC that i picked up is just smaller than that.. but like i said, i will measure it when i get it disassembled.

SonnyBlk

ok, dropped the trans and measured the "newer" TC and its 9-7/8" and the Flex (drive) plate that i just unbolted is 10-3/8" all measured from bolt-hole to bolt-hole across.

Earlier when i measured the "older" TC and said it was 10-3/4" i was measuring outer diameter and not from the bolt-holes.

Well i called a local shop and they said they could match one up for me... probably smartest option..

MAD_MIKE

Just checked the drive plate from the LX transmission. 10.5"/267mm diameter. 9-7/8"/257mm bolt pattern.
Markings on the drive plate '112194-2' Its a black ink stamp, no other markings.
This drive plate outer circumfrence is flat. The Ody MPJA trans with the larger drive plate had two bent flanges that faced the block. Like in this Honda diagram...


Looked at the TC, did not notice any markings other than blue paints marks on the circumfrence of the TC itself, not on the bolt ring. But those blue marks match the blue paint marks that were on the outside of the trans from what appears to be non-factory.. So that may not be a factory marking.

SonnyBlk

ok so then it sounds like i have the correct TC just need to get a 94-97 Drive plate to match now... should pick that up this week.

Thanks again!

SonnyBlk

update: okay, so i bolted everything back together (with the new drive plate and TC) and its not grabbing gears....

It will when is first started.. but after a few seconds it will drop out.

dont know what to replace now....

MAD_MIKE

When you refilled the 'new' transmission did you shift through all the gears for a few seconds to allow all the hydraulic circuits to fill up? Then top the transmission back up? When I replaced the AT in the 95 EX the import transmission was pretty well drained. On installation it took a full nine quarts easy. The last quart did require a few trips around the block to get the last bits of trapped air out.

Did you pull the drain plug and do you recall what it looked like? How much junk was on the drain plug when you pulled it? Nothing? A fine sooty coating? The plug was covered in sludge and shavings?
Did you know that the '93 EX trans was indeed good? Did you see it in working order, did you get it out of a low mileage car, or did you get it from an importer?

Have you checked the shift solenoids on the transmission? Check the solenoids for correct resistance? Verify that they operate and 'click' when battery power is directly applied to them? Verify the screens for the pintle valves were clean? Was pressure within spec?
http://techauto.awardspace.com/transmission.html

SonnyBlk

I filled the trans with exactly 4qts and then started it up.. shifted threw the gears (which grabbed) and then put it in park and re-checked the fluid. It was still full... (odd i thought) So i went to take it around the block and when i got back in and placed it in drive, it didnt grab.

The drain plug from the trans that came with the car was COVERED in metal.. (thats why i went to get the 93 trans) But where i think i screwed up is that i used that same TC that came with the car, on the 93 tranny.. so maybe metal got into the 93 one.. BUT when i drained the 93 trans to changed the TC, the fluid looked okay..

It was from my dads old car.. High mileage but in good working condition. he replaced the engine and trans so this was extra.

Resistance is good at both the TCU as well as the solenoids.. they click fine even under pressure... screens are clean.. not sure about pressure, cant check it.

BUT, If i let the car sit, and then fire it up it will go into gear fine and if i 'power brake' the TC will grab for a second and then "let-go" and then try to kill the engine.. so i thought maybe too much pressure, so i bypassed the cooler thinking maybe it was clogged but no affect..

Okay so now i have no CEL light OR D4 light... Checked all fuses and all wires around the TCU/ECU..

MAD_MIKE

Did you recheck the fluid level? Are you sure it was full? The Honda AT can be a right ***** to check the level, make sure the car is on a level surface.
If the throttle cable has the correct tension, and the transmission was working, but now doesn't I suspect that there is not enough fluid in the trans. When I replaced the '95 EX trans after 6 quarts the level did not rise but it was still taking fluid. At 8 quarts I went for a drive and after about 5 miles the shifting became lackluster, topped it off with the final quart and it shifts fine and on command. I kind of wonder if the pickup for the trans and the fluid level are just too damn close. Try adding a quart with the engine idling and see if it raises or stays the same. Make sure to shift through all the gears after adding each quart.

The CEL/D4 won't occur unless there is either a fault in the electrical circuit, or if the VSS, NM or NC speed sensors pickup a discrepancy with the shaft speeds. There aren't any pressure sensors. This is why it would be best to check the pressure port with a transmission gauge for correct pressure. If the pump is not creating pressure the transmission will simply not work.

SonnyBlk

as it sits now.. its showing full. Should i add some and see if it rises?


I was expecting it to gulp up the first 4qts after shifting threw the gears but it never did, so then i though maybe i need to actually drive it.. but when i went to take it around the block it wouldnt grab a gear.. every gear was like neutral. (but that seems to be the concept, after the engine is running for a minute, it wont engage any gears)



I gotcha on that, but what i mean is when i turn the key to 'on' the CEL and D4 light usually light up and then the D4 light turns off and the CEL stays on until the car is started.. that doesnt happen. also, when i shift into D4 the light is out.. it was on before this last swap.. ALSO, when i jumper the CEL jumper neither light flash for any codes or even illuminate.. kinda like the bulbs are burnt but what are the chances that BOTH burned out together?


Yea i dont have that tool... I have a compression tester, but i dont think its made for fluid lol.

MAD_MIKE

I would try another quart, let it idle for a moment then select each gear. Hold each gear for ~10seconds and then recheck the level.
You have to just keep adding fluid til the level changes. When it does, then you select the gears, this will fill those circuits.
Admittedly I am not exactly sure where the pickup is in the Honda AT. But if its like most other ATs the pickup is not towards the bottom of the pan like it is in the engines oil pan. It is higher up, this allows heavy foreign materials to sink to the bottom and not clog the valve body or other passages in the transmission. If there isn't enough ATF in the case it simply cannot pump and create pressure.
Stranger things have happened. Check and test the bulbs, replace them if need be.
Heh, nope its not. You need a gauge that can read up to 300psi, and you would need the adapter fittings.
http://www.amazon.com/Advanced-ATD-5.../dp/B000OUZBZ0
This is not a bad price on such a gauge, usually they are in the ~$80 range.

I picked mine up for ~$65 back in '04
http://www.amazon.com/KD-Tools-3343-...5&sr=1-2-fkmr0

SonnyBlk

Okay, i see.. Ill try that this morning.

LOL! very true! okay, ill check into it.

oh dang, yea not too bad at all.. very good investment IMO.

SonnyBlk

okay.. Started it up this morning, and as always it goes right into gear, so i selected each gear for 10sec, then put it in park and checked the fluid. Same as before showing full. So i added another quart with the car idling and in park, and then returned to select each gear.. from park it went into reverse good, held it there for 10secs, then neutral for about 3secs (to let the idle adjust) and then into D4 and thats where it took a half second to fully grab, and left it there for 10 secs, then into D3 and thats where i lost the gear.. after that no gears would grab..

So i re-checked the fluid level and it was way above the full mark. shut the car off for about 30secs and tried again, and like always, it will grab the first gear i select and hold it for about 15secs and then slowly fade into neutral...

SonnyBlk

Picked up ANOTHER trans and TC yesterday... Gonna try and swap it out today.. Wish me luck!! lol

SonnyBlk

Success! took it around the block last night and all seems well.. Thanks mike for all your input.

MAD_MIKE

Thats somewhat similiar to what happened to the '97LX trans. Although it was weird, if you held it in a gear it would work for ~1min and then drop out, walk away from it long enough to let it cool down and it worked again. I've been meaning to tear into the trans to see if I can see anything. I have a sneaky suspicion that the screen in the valve body gets blocked with old clutch material slurry. After a few moments of the fluid pumping it clogs up the screen blocking flow. Let it sit long enough and the slurry slushes back down to allow fluid to pass again until it clogs the screen once more. I tried a quick drain and refill with it but so much material kept coming out I figured the trans was snafu'd, and not worth fouling my pressure gauge with foreign material.

Awesome. When you pulled the 93 trans did you drain it before hand? If so was there any crud in the fluid?

EDIT: One thing I should have noted, if you have to or need to pull the TC off the trans, for some insurance replace that O ring on the TCs snout and lube it with ATF.

Thomas Diefel

having the same issues in my 95 accord f22 auto .bought transmision of my buddy that threw a rod in his honda had no issues n was strong tranny in his honda. Pulled tranny and installed it in my honda drove it for couple months .started slipping then lost all gears .bought new TC n having same issues as u 2 been talking about any advice.

MAD_MIKE

How many miles were on the old trans and how was the maintenance?
With the engine running does the trans begin to emit a howl or loud whirring sound?
Does the trans work for a few moments normally and then fail?
On higher mileage H4A transmissions the common problem when losing operation is the sump screen becomes impacted with junk and blocks flow. The whirring/whining/howl sound is the AT pump cavitating.
Look for Tyler Durdens post on how to drill and clean out the sump pickup screen.
If there is no reverse(pure mechanical/hydraulic) then the sump pickup is most likely the culprit.