Buffalo.Rider

i have two questions.

Regarding the rear balancer belt pulley (or gear) ... we are supposed to remove a bolt on the back of the engine and then insert a 6x100m bolt (or other long thin thing, like a #1 philips screwdriver ) into the bolt hole and this will hold the rear balancer pulley in place while one installs the belt.

In the rear of the F23A4 motor (2.3L, 4 cyl) there are two possible things to take out. One is a plug removable with a 3/8" ratchet or breaker bar - location: as I am looking at the timing belts and the rear balancer gear, it is to the right of the rear balancer pulley. Behind this plug, goign toward the center of the car (center of the engine) is a bolt, it looks like it has a 10mm head on it.

Q1: Which of these two am I supposed to remove?
Q2: See in my next post on this thread.

(I have Chilton's, it talks about the "the bolt" but no picture so not clear. Same for all forums I have seen so far.)

Thanks for any help you might have.

accordturb96

these should help. Diagrams straight from mitchell pro-demand service manual.

Buffalo.Rider

Thanks accordturb96. That helps.

I found the bolt,took it out. I am using a #1 philips screwdriver that is about 3 inches long to hold the rear balancer pulley in place. (Chilton's recommended putting in the 6x100mm bolt about 2.9 inches, so inserting the philips screwdriver all the way should be about right. I do not have a 100mm - that is, a 5-inch - bolt of 6mm.)

I am finding that the #1 philips will go in all the way in two places as I turn the rear balancer pulley. So I am wondering which is correct. I have some pictures, will post as soon as possible. [here about 30 minutes later ... 4 places, not 2 ... my post below discusses it.]

I might add ... there is a line on the rear balancer pulley (which shows up nicely in the pictures), but I am unsure about where it is supposed to align on the engine block. I will also add ... I marked the rear balancer pulley with a white mark before taking the belt off ... marking the tooth of the pulley that was closest to the corresponding balancer pulley on the crankshaft ... and this is not one of the positions where the #1 philips goes in all the way ... so that suggests to me that whoever did the timing belt 3 years ago did it wrong.

accordturb96

well the screwdriver should slide right into the hole where the bolt was removed and into the hole that cuts directly through the balancer shaft. the holes all have to align in order to lock the shaft into place

accordturb96

are you building this motor or just replacing belts?

Buffalo.Rider

OK, I am back. With a picture.

The top purple arrow shows the line (the mark) on the rear timing balancer pulley. The bottom purple arrow is pointing to a POSSIBLE place on the crankcase housing where HONDA may have intended for it to line up ... it is a small rib going up and down. I see no other marks that seem like candidates to me, and I have seen no mention of this anywhere, thus far. I will add that my 3" long #1 philips screwdriver will go in all the way in this position, so it seems a candidate for proper alignment.

The two red arrows show the white marks I put on the crankshaft balancer pulley and the rear balancer pulley before disassembling. When I line these up, I CANNOT get the 3-inch #1 philips screwdriver to go in all the way, suggesting to me that this is not the correct place (meaning the prior mechanic did not align it correctly, which does not surprise me since he also left off a retainer over the balancer shaft seal, which popped out and is the reason I am in here doing this complete timing belt job.)

Anyone have any insights?

[IMG]K:\Miscellaneous\pic_7042_A.jpg[/IMG]
(sorry about the image ... I thought we could upload one, but apparently not. I have no webpage, therefore no URL, to which I can post it and then reference it.

Buffalo.Rider

Complete timing belt job. Including the three seals (crankshaft, camshaft, and balancer shaft), the tensioners, water pump, the two belts (timing and balancer).

Buffalo.Rider

I was able to insert the #1 philips a bit over 2.9 inches into the hole with the rear balancer pulley in two different locations. I am wondering if both positions are OK, or if there is supposed to be only one. If only one, which one is it?

Thanks for your inquiry (and once again for the great diagrams).

Maybe I need to go buy a 6x100mm screw ... maybe that will clear up the ambiguities.

Buffalo.Rider

OK ... further investigation, the 3-inch #1 philips screwdriver will go in when the rear balancer pulley is in four positions.

On one of the teeth of the rear balancer pulley is a mark (a 1/4-inch line or groove in the pulley pointing outward as if pointng to something).

As I turn the rear balancer pulley, the 3" screwdriver will suddenly slip in. In this case the line on the pulley is pointing upward. If I withdraw the screwdriver and turn the rear balancer pulley once again, the screwdriver will suddenly slip in again ... but this time the line will be pointing directly at the crankshaft pulley. If I withdraw it and turn the pulley again, the screwdriver will suddenly slip in again, but this time the line will point downward. If I withdraw it and turn the pulley again, the screwdriver will suddencly slip in again, but this time the line will point toward the back of the car .

So apparently the rear balancer pulley is not attached to the balancer shaft inside the motor, but is instead connected to it by gears (in a 3 to 4 ratio I take it). This would explain what I am seeing.

I think I am going to go with the arrow pointing at the crankshaft pulley. I have a hunch it does not matter which of the four positions the rear balancer pulley is in as long as the screwdriver will go in all the way through the maintenance hole of the balancer shaft. I doubt the rear balancer pulley affects the balancing, and only the balancer shaft does.

Once again, if anyone has further insights, feel free to share.
I am using reason to 'guess' how to proceed. If you have knowledge, please share.
Thanks much, once more.

accordturb96

your screw driver should be going into this hole on the rear shaft. The reason for the alignment is solely to keep all of the balance shafts in synchronization with the bottom crank pulley and finally up to the head. Here is a link to another member write up on the replacing of the timing belt components.

https://honda-tech.com/forums/honda-accord-1990-2002-2/how-replace-timing-belt-timing-balancer-belt-water-pump-f22b1-1908944/

accordturb96

and yes I believe the rear pulley has a smaller gear that is driven off of the shaft which ***** just behind the cover and the larger pulley on the outside

holmesnmanny

There is a mark on the rear gear that corresponds with a mark on the block. It should be somewhere around the 10:30 position. Line it up there and then stick the screwdriver in there. Should line up perfectly. Keep in mind it is very possible to be off a tooth after putting the balancer belt on. I did this the very first time I did a timing belt and had a vibration that I had to correct by going back in and redoing it which caused me to move the gear one tooth counterclockwise which lined it up perfectly the second time.

Buffalo.Rider

Thanks accordturb96 and holmesnmanny for your feedback.

accordturb96 ... your help was invaluable.
holmesnmanny .... thanks for your tip. I did not see any mark on my motor, perhaps I did not look hard enough.

I put everything back together in the way I described in my post of April 5, 5:04pm ... and the engine runs smoothly and quietly. So I think everything is back in the right place.

(acordturb96 - If you have any tips on how to post an image, since you have done it on this thread, mind passing it on? I have a .jpg file on a memory stick.)

You guys and the others who help on this forum, you all are great. Appreciate it.

accordturb96

Well what you do is go to reply, and scroll down to manage attachments. Once inside the picture uploader you will click on choose file. So search through your computer to your jump drive. Locate the picture then select it. Once it's selected hit upload. Then close the uploader box. You will be at the message box with icons like fonts and what not. Click on the paper clip and select all of the pictures. This will put the picture into the word box but it will be listed as a number and word sequence. Then type your info underneath. That does it. Not a problem my friend. I have always loved the accords and have been building mine for boost so I've done some research for about 5 years. This site and the people who are knowledgeable on here are what we all owe a thanks to. Holmes is very knowledgable as well and many many others. I have access to pro-demand so if you need help let me know. Brendan