F23A1 to J30A1
10-08-2008, 05:14 PM
#1
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F23A1 to J30A1
Hey guys, I haven't posted in far too long! Im looking to do a quick swap from stock F23A1 to J30A1.. I know everyones gonna say to go H22 but I have the motor for 300.00 with tranny ecu ect.. and its nearly new.... ready to install and my current motor is starting to go (180,000Km)..
I was looking for a thread to see if anyones done this but was unsuccessful... Can anyone point me in the direction sor some tips, things to look out for...
Thanks in advance, im sure ill find the answers Im looking for!
I was looking for a thread to see if anyones done this but was unsuccessful... Can anyone point me in the direction sor some tips, things to look out for...
Thanks in advance, im sure ill find the answers Im looking for!
10-08-2008, 06:27 PM
#2
Honda-Tech Member
i know the firewall is different on the V6 cars. My guess would be that there will be some minor fabrication, the swap has been done though.
BTW, the power delivery of a V6 is a lot smoother than the H22. Also once the swap is done you could later upgrade to a J35 motor!
BTW, the power delivery of a V6 is a lot smoother than the H22. Also once the swap is done you could later upgrade to a J35 motor!
10-09-2008, 07:17 AM
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Re: (thehatchninja)
Is the Firewall different??? Ive been told that there may be some size differences in the engine bay but I dont know why Honda would manufacture 2 different accords, it would be much cheaper to make them identical cars... Any one else know anything about this?
The original plan was actually to go with a J32... But the motors are expensive if I want an 02 engine, plus, I can get the J30 for so cheap that it only makes sense to do this right now..
If any one knows anything about the engine bay sizing of the F23 and J30, please let me know, this is very important for me to consider prior to this swap..
Thanks as always
The original plan was actually to go with a J32... But the motors are expensive if I want an 02 engine, plus, I can get the J30 for so cheap that it only makes sense to do this right now..
If any one knows anything about the engine bay sizing of the F23 and J30, please let me know, this is very important for me to consider prior to this swap..
Thanks as always
10-09-2008, 09:11 AM
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Re: (Juccord)
Ive read a little more about F23 to J23 and J30 to J32 swaps now and have been hearing a lot about needing to replace the sub frame from my I4 to accommodate the new V6.. Is this true for all model accords, or only specifics. I could swear while looking into the engine bay of my 2002 accord sedan, you can see drill holes and mounts... Am I seeing things?
Ive also read that everything in I4's is on the opposite side then in V6's (wiring ect..) Can someone elaborate?
Thanks again
Ive also read that everything in I4's is on the opposite side then in V6's (wiring ect..) Can someone elaborate?
Thanks again
10-09-2008, 05:58 PM
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Re: (Juccord)
Yep, there are a TON of little things that are different between the 4 and 6cyl Accords, that all builds up into one BIG headache. The guys that i've heard of attempting it all give up and say you're better off selling the 4cyl and buying a V6 model to begin with.
EDIT: The wiring harness comes out of the driver's side on the V6, pass side on the I4, intakes are on different sides, though you can flip the IM with some modification, battery is on the opposite side, and numerous other things.
EDIT: The wiring harness comes out of the driver's side on the V6, pass side on the I4, intakes are on different sides, though you can flip the IM with some modification, battery is on the opposite side, and numerous other things.
10-10-2008, 06:52 AM
#7
In a Junkyard near you.
Re: (soccerstar19)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by soccerstar19 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">j30's are junk use to have one if your looking for power this isn't the right way to go at all</TD></TR></TABLE>
Are you serious? Those engines are darn near bullet proof. I've never replaced one that died due to natural causes.
But still the OP is better off selling the car and buying a V6. The cars aren't rare at all so it's not worth it in the long or short term.
Are you serious? Those engines are darn near bullet proof. I've never replaced one that died due to natural causes.
But still the OP is better off selling the car and buying a V6. The cars aren't rare at all so it's not worth it in the long or short term.
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10-10-2008, 11:47 AM
#8
Re: (Ross 2.0)
engine bay is the same size on v6 cars. I'm not sure about the subframe though. Firewall is more or less the same, you won't have to do anything to it that you can't get done with a drill. the harness is completely reversed, since the f23 rotates the honda way and the j30 rotates like everyone else.everything in the bay is backwards on those 2 cars.
honestly, just go buy a v6 accord. you can get a good one for cheap. The apparent cheapness of that motor you have will not look so good halfway through the swap when you are getting eaten alive with nickle and dime additional parts.
honestly, just go buy a v6 accord. you can get a good one for cheap. The apparent cheapness of that motor you have will not look so good halfway through the swap when you are getting eaten alive with nickle and dime additional parts.
10-10-2008, 12:12 PM
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Re: (jweller)
Fair enough.. The more and more I had looked into this swap the more I realized what I would be getting my self into.. Though a good motor (power wise and durability wise) and an even better price, it may be easier for me just to go the ol' H22 way...
Which brings me to another question: legality wise, ive been told from many different sources "its illegal to install an older motor into a newer car".. say a 2000 H22 engine into my 02 accord.. I believe this would be for emissions reasons.. Anyone know much about this?
Thanks again Guys, so far, very helpful!
Which brings me to another question: legality wise, ive been told from many different sources "its illegal to install an older motor into a newer car".. say a 2000 H22 engine into my 02 accord.. I believe this would be for emissions reasons.. Anyone know much about this?
Thanks again Guys, so far, very helpful!
10-10-2008, 12:30 PM
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Re: (Juccord)
Sorry for all the questions guys. one more:
Ive been looking at all sorts of H22's now and obviously id like the newest model possible that would also be the easiest swap .. Ive found this motor H22A 00-01 (Accord Euro R) (link: http://www.hmotorsonline.com/s...30019) at hmotorsonline.com and was curious if this would actually be a direct swap in.. axles fitting, 3 of 4 mounts working ect... any know if this is a better motor (in all aspects) then this one: H22A Type S 97-98 Complete Motor,Trans,Ecu (link: http://www.hmotorsonline.com/s...30018)... ? Are there even H22 obdII's???? or just harnesses to convert?
Thanks again
Ive been looking at all sorts of H22's now and obviously id like the newest model possible that would also be the easiest swap .. Ive found this motor H22A 00-01 (Accord Euro R) (link: http://www.hmotorsonline.com/s...30019) at hmotorsonline.com and was curious if this would actually be a direct swap in.. axles fitting, 3 of 4 mounts working ect... any know if this is a better motor (in all aspects) then this one: H22A Type S 97-98 Complete Motor,Trans,Ecu (link: http://www.hmotorsonline.com/s...30018)... ? Are there even H22 obdII's???? or just harnesses to convert?
Thanks again
10-10-2008, 09:10 PM
#11
Honda-Tech Member
LOL at all the ppl hating on the j30, im not too sure about the swap, i mean no swap is easy, but like swaping a gsr into a ls is pretty easy, but a f23 to a j30 isnt a cake walk. but it really shouldnt be that difficult if you know enough about engines. and with bolt ons i dynoed at 191/177 so i say go j30 or go all out and do j32
10-11-2008, 12:03 PM
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Re: (csmiths98AV6)
^^ thanks^^........
So does anyone know anything about the legality issue I mentioned a little earlier? Can I put a 2000 engine into my 2002? Kind of changing the topic tittle but any advise is good advise..
So does anyone know anything about the legality issue I mentioned a little earlier? Can I put a 2000 engine into my 2002? Kind of changing the topic tittle but any advise is good advise..
10-11-2008, 09:12 PM
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Sorry just noticed that your north of the border, your gonna have to call a local tester in Canada to get specifics.
EPA mandates the following.
In a EPA regulated area, for the swap to be smog legal the following may be done.
The engine going in must be in line with the following...
A. The same auto manufacturer.
B. The engine must be the same model year or newer. Model name is immaterial.
C. All Emissions control equipment must be installed and operational.
So the short answer is no, it would not be legal in any way if you use an older engine.
Cali has the following stipulations...
California Engine Swap Guidelines
1. The engine must be from the same year or newer vehicle. For example, if the car is a 1999 Civic, the engine must be from a 1999 or newer car.
2. The engine can be larger than the original, but it cannot be from a heavy-duty vehicle, unless the vehicle was equipped with one from the factory.
3. The engine and chassis must have all of their original emissions components in place and functioning properly. However, mixing and matching emissions parts from different vehicles is generally not allowed. As such it's up to the reff to decide what needs to be there. A quick way to see what you need there is to look at the sticker under the hood. It will list all the emissions equipment that came on the car.
4. A federally certified engine cannot be used in a vehicle that was originally equipped with a California certified engine.
Modified by boostedtsi at 10:29 PM 10/11/2008
EPA mandates the following.
In a EPA regulated area, for the swap to be smog legal the following may be done.
The engine going in must be in line with the following...
A. The same auto manufacturer.
B. The engine must be the same model year or newer. Model name is immaterial.
C. All Emissions control equipment must be installed and operational.
So the short answer is no, it would not be legal in any way if you use an older engine.
Cali has the following stipulations...
California Engine Swap Guidelines
1. The engine must be from the same year or newer vehicle. For example, if the car is a 1999 Civic, the engine must be from a 1999 or newer car.
2. The engine can be larger than the original, but it cannot be from a heavy-duty vehicle, unless the vehicle was equipped with one from the factory.
3. The engine and chassis must have all of their original emissions components in place and functioning properly. However, mixing and matching emissions parts from different vehicles is generally not allowed. As such it's up to the reff to decide what needs to be there. A quick way to see what you need there is to look at the sticker under the hood. It will list all the emissions equipment that came on the car.
4. A federally certified engine cannot be used in a vehicle that was originally equipped with a California certified engine.
Modified by boostedtsi at 10:29 PM 10/11/2008
10-16-2008, 12:34 PM
#14
Honda-Tech Member
Re: (csmiths98AV6)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by csmiths98AV6 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> and with bolt ons i dynoed at 191/177 so i say go j30 or go all out and do j32</TD></TR></TABLE>
Which is pretty damn even with my F23 that only makes 169/164.
Which is pretty damn even with my F23 that only makes 169/164.
10-18-2008, 09:05 PM
#15
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Re: (AFAccord)
lol yea with two big ppl, and you know that they were big, and a trunk full of ****. i would LOVE to do that run again, with my car at normal, you have to understand that lol, but still a surprise. that h22 was poo poo
10-19-2008, 06:25 PM
#18
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Re: (csmiths98AV6)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by csmiths98AV6 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">that h22 was poo poo</TD></TR></TABLE>
LMAO! That made my day to have my F23 Accord pull nearly 4 car lengths on an H22 Accord! Like the shot heard round the world for all those swapped guys.
I went to the drag strip this past wednesday, but left disappointed. They made EVERY car roll through the water box, so the damn track was soaked. My best 60' was 2.6 launching at 2100rpm, when last year with the exact same tires and ~25whp less I pulled a 2.2 60'.
I've had better traction on the I-70 pass in Colorado in the middle of a blizzard.
I barely ran a 15.7, trying to keep from breaking the tires loose half way through second gear.
I'll be going to the 1/8 mile track in my hometown soon where I can get some good launches in. Get some times for your car and we'll compare.
/thread jack
Modified by AFAccord at 10:37 PM 10/19/2008
LMAO! That made my day to have my F23 Accord pull nearly 4 car lengths on an H22 Accord! Like the shot heard round the world for all those swapped guys.
I went to the drag strip this past wednesday, but left disappointed. They made EVERY car roll through the water box, so the damn track was soaked. My best 60' was 2.6 launching at 2100rpm, when last year with the exact same tires and ~25whp less I pulled a 2.2 60'.
I barely ran a 15.7, trying to keep from breaking the tires loose half way through second gear.
I'll be going to the 1/8 mile track in my hometown soon where I can get some good launches in. Get some times for your car and we'll compare./thread jack
Modified by AFAccord at 10:37 PM 10/19/2008
10-19-2008, 09:23 PM
#19
Honda-Tech Member
Re: (csmiths98AV6)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by csmiths98AV6 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">aem CAI, headers, gutted cat, full 2.25" cat back exhaust, Unorthodox underdrive pullies (crank, alt, and ps), and a unichip</TD></TR></TABLE>
oh sorry i wasn't specific i meant motor and trans
oh sorry i wasn't specific i meant motor and trans
10-19-2008, 11:41 PM
#20
Working
Re: F23A1 to J30A1 (Juccord)
This is not a quick swap, but it is possible. The main issues are not the subframe or mounts, but everything else. The entire engine bay is setup different from the v6 and the l4 chassis. You will have to buy everything from a v6 chassis to swap it over and in the end will most likely cost more that just purchasing a v6 car and go from there. I would suggest selling or trading what you have now for what you want. far easier to do that than what you are proposing.
10-20-2008, 07:07 PM
#21
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Re: (FunnyVictor86)
j30 and auto tranny. Afaccord I ran a 15.1 weighing 3295 on the scale, so if I could cut weight into the 2ks I'd be in the 14's. But you car is most def quick and quite surprising
10-25-2008, 07:30 AM
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Re: (TheMuffinMan)
Thanks for all the advise guys, I think in the end ill be boosting the F23 after all.. Too many issues with emissions when going H22 (older then 2002) and too much work (for now) to go with any newer engines or even of same year.. Ive become rather impatient!
Thanks again, ill be posting soon im sure with questions relating to my turbo install!
Thanks again, ill be posting soon im sure with questions relating to my turbo install!
07-13-2013, 10:43 AM
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Re: F23A1 to J30A1
Hey guys im rockin with a CG5 Accord and kinda new to all this but im also thinking about swapping a F23 to a J30. i just wanted to know what i'd need cause i found a J30 on ebay for cheap with decent miles but i just wanna know what else i'd need. Also Sorry for posting on someone else's thread! Appreciate the help.
07-13-2013, 11:03 AM
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Re: F23A1 to J30A1
i just wanna know what swap to do cause i dont wanna buy all kinds of parts then later on doing a swap.. i got told to do either a type r h22, if i wanna ball out to drop 5k for a k24, or j32/j30. I also got told to just a jdm blue top h22, some arp head studs, and a turbo kit, run 10lbs and just have a nice street car making 350hp+ tuned on e85 so what you guys think?