Integralove00

I am having trouble starting a 1996 honda accord EX (F22B1) after replacing the timing belt (also water pump, tensioners etc) and head gasket (also oil pan gasket, intake and exhaust manifold gaskets, and valve cover gasket. I've verified the motor is getting spark, fuel, compression (180 psi on 3 cylinders and 150 psi on cylinder two), I also believe the motor is in time. It nearly starts but sputters and dies without idle. I tried to reverse the distributor key but it only fits the one way.

Any thoughts or suggestions?

cctgene

My shoot from the hip thought - If indeed you have spark, fuel and compression it ought to run unless its out of time. Do a simple timing check by putting your number one cylinder at TDC then remove your distributor cap and verify that the rotor is pointing to the number one cylinder spark plug wire position. If its way out, pointing in exact opposite direction, then your distributor was installed 180 out. If it's pointing in the general direction of the the number one wire then double check your cam and crankshaft timing mark settings.

GhostAccord

If you are sure that you have fuel & fire then your timing could be off a tooth or two.

Integralove00

Thanks guys, I'm going to take another look now. I was also wondering if there are any key connections that have to be made for the motor to idle. By connections I mean TPS or other electrical connections maybe I've pulled a wire from it's socket.?

Thanks

JLUDE01

Re-check all electrical connections on the manifold area.

How did you verify that you were at TDC on the compression stroke on Cyl #1 when the dizzy point is at spark plug #1? Was the crank pulley arrow straight up with the cam gear arrow straight up?

If you have spark and fuel timing sounds likely.

Another possible is that you have the spark plug wires crossed. Find the longest spark plug wire, that's cylinder #1 (closest to cam gear). Then go clockwise on the dizzy to the next wire, that should be cylinder #3. The next one around is cylinder #4, the last one is cylinder #2.

GhostAccord

MAP, TPS, IAC, etc...etc... is your CEL light on?

Also check to make sure that you didn't mix up the TPS and MAP sensor connectors. The connectors are identical but the wire colours are obviously different.
TPS = RED/BLK - GRN/BLU - YEL/BLU
MAP = WHT/YEL - GRN/WHT - YEL/WHT

Integralove00

Just checked cctgene's suggestion... regarding the distributor rotor button, it is aligned with cylinder no. 1 while piston no. 1 is at TDC simultaneously with cam and crank pulley arrows aligned. All of these line up so I no longer doubt my timing job or the distributor. Not even by a tooth.

I am now checking my valve adjustments and considering checking the fuel again although the plugs have been wet with fuel. I wonder if my plugs were some how fouled.. I've verified they still make a strong spark so they don't appear fouled.


I will double check my electrical connections as well. Thanks for all of the suggestions. Please keep them coming. I've done a number of honda builds and swaps so I'm baffled by what I'm doing wrong. Oh, and Ghost, I do not have a CEL.

JLUDE01

Just a thought. Did you disconnect the negative battery terminal before doing the job? Things can get shorted out and fuses can get blown if you don't! I would check all fuses if you didn't disconnect battery before working on IM.

Conan

I had a similar issue before and it was ignition timing. Only problem is it's impssible to time when you can't start the car. So loosen the adjusting bolt on the dizzy. And either have someon crank motor, or use a remote starter switch, while moving the dizzy around. Once you can get it started then you can time it. Hope that helps.

GhostAccord

Also ensure that the main engine harness ground has a clean & direct contact with the upper plenum/intake manifold. G101 is located on the drivers side end of the plenum. It should be under one of the vacuum junction bolts. This is the PGM-FI ground, very important.

Integralove00

The Map and TPS sensors are/were connected correctly, I believe everything is plugged in and all grounds are connected (at intake manifold, valve cover and transmission). The new spark plugs look like they are coated in some fuel or possibly even some oil after several attempts to start (the porcelain insulator is dark in color), but they still spark strong.


I disconnected the ground during my work so I don't think fuses would have been blown, I have yet to check them all but will.

I am wondering the best way to check fuel delivery.

I have tried the ignition timing by advancing and retarding the distributor at full position as well as trying in the neutral position. I'm at a loss for what else could be the problem.

Conan

Another issue I had that was hard to figure out. I had spark and fuel, but still wouldn't start. I was scratching my head trying everything. So I went to Pep Boys and bought one of those spark tester, that basically is a tube witha clip on it and a connector. You ground the clip, stick a spark plug wire and turn a screw to measure the spark. It was too weak for spec. Replaced the coil, boom fired right up.

Integralove00

I verified all connections (ground wires and tps, iac, map etc..).

I will look into the spark tester idea, I'd love for this to be a coil.

Is there a CEL jumper port on 96 accords? The two prong one where you loop a paper clip or piece of wire? I looked on both sides of the dash but didn't spot it. I was going to just attempt to jump the ECU and check for any codes.

Also I'm wondering about an old Clifford car alarm remaining on this car. It was on the car when purchased but hasn't really been used in years. It freaked out on me when I reconnected the ground initally. I did deactivate it using the key fob but I'm beginning to wonder if I should just uninstall the thing since it isn't being used and may have some type of kill feature. Not sure what all that uninstall may require.

cctgene

If I understood you correctly, you indicated that your plugs, when removed, appeared wet and coated with fuel and possibly with oil. Did you actually verify, by smelling, that it was indeed fuel and not water? When you replaced the head gasket did you check the head for warpage?

Yes there is a CEL jumper on a 96 its under neath the glove compartment.

Integralove00

I did not check for warpage knowing I should have. I don't think I have anything straight enough to really check.

Since everything is assembled could I verify there is no pressure loss or leakage with a leakdown tester? I haven't seen any drop in my coolant level so didn't think I had coolant in the cylinder. I smell some fuel but I can't be sure that I only have fuel on the plugs, it's possibly a mixture coolant, oil or gas.

Conan

A cylinder leakdown (or leakage) test would tell. You woul dneed a compressor to use the tool. Harbor Freight had a decently priced tester. You basically set a cylinder to TDC, pump it full of air, and see if the gauge stays or if it loses air. If it loses air you check to see where it is leaking. Bubbles out your radiator indicate head gasket leak, etc.

Edit: as far as the oil, it's probably just the oil that leaks out of the poorly designed spark plug gaskets on the valve cover, and onto the spark plugs. I've never seen one of those motors without oil in at least one of the spark plug holes.

Integralove00

Ok, last thing... I hope.

I want to try the leak down test but don't own a leak down tester. I'm wondering though, do I need the leak down tester? Shouldn't I be able to just use a pressurized line from my air compressor and monitor pressure drops? My air compressor has a regulator so I can build the air pressure gradually. I should also be able to see as pressure falls so is the tester even needed or is it just a matter of manipulating the fittings?

Conan

I suppose you may be able to rig something with your compressor and maybe part of a compression tester? Not sure, but even still you will need to figure out what leakage is acceptable. The tester has markings on ranges as far as acceptable and unacceptable leakage. Here is the one I got:http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=94190

Integralove00

Ok.. so I did have a CEL..

CEL no. 4. CKP Sensor (Crankshaft Position Sensor) defective circuit or unplugged / defective sensor

I'm going to take a thorough look at this in the morning, but I believe this is the problem. "The CKP Sensor determines timing for fuel injection and ignition of each cylinder and also engine speed."


Thanks for all of the suggestions guys I will let you know when I have a look at this.

GhostAccord

Yes it would keep your engine from running. The CKP determines the timing for fuel injection and ignition for each cylinder.

On the 96 Accords it is found along with the TDC sensor mounted behind the crank pulley on the oil pump housing. The wire connector is found on the rear of the engine down by the crank pulley.

Integralove00

Thanks to everyone who helped with suggestions on this.

I'm embarrassed to inform you that the problem was an incorrect balance shaft crank pulley install. When I investigated my 4 CEL I found no damage or poor connection to my crank sensor. Instead I discovered that I had installed a balance shaft crank pulley from an OBD1 F22A motor which was sitting right beside the car I was working on. I had picked up the wrong pulley by mistake. The difference is that the OBD2 pulley has metal receivers or teeth which pass by the crank sensor and the OBD1 pulley does not.

After correcting the problem the car fired right up!

Thanks again to everyone!