97LXF20B

Hey all,

Done a lot of reading, but not much posting so far. Anyhow... got a little dilemma and I would love some help or suggestions. No names for now - the swap is not done... don't want to badmouth anyone until I see how it all works out.

I am paying a motorsports shop to swap in a F20B into my 97 Accord LX Coupe (CD7). Rather than find the engine myself, the guy assured me he could get a reliable motor from a known distributor. The first motor came, and the dude apparently didn't know exactly how to do it. He told me it would take 4 days, and it ended up being 3 weeks. Had to get a custom wiring harness for the JDM ECU - mine is OBD2a and the JDM one is OBD2b (though not really, cuz it japanese spec), and had to get a prelude header to throw on it so the exhaust would bolt up. No tranny swap was planned - the dude said it wouldn't be a problem.

Anyhow, the first engine took like 3 weeks to be ready - then once he got it started it had a rod knock. Kinda faulty. And of course, he wasn't able to get the crank pulley off - so no timing belt replacement - even tho I had to pay $200+ non-refundable for a new prelude t-belt. Then - he got the distributor to pay both ways shipping on the second engine - and only charged me his employees actual labor plus extra fluids and valve cover gasket to reinstall the second one. All was supposed to be cool when I went to pick it up last Saturday. When I got there, thinking it would be ready to go, he again couldn't get the crank pulley off - so no power steering, and he said it just had some idle surge that would go away after a couple days.

When we test drove it - it was surging under throttle also, and super gutless. Then, after about 20 min of driving it was cool. I took the car, drove it to my destination, and it seemed fine. The stock F22 tranny has super long gears for this engine - though I found out the gearing is almost the same. Only difference is 4.062 vs. 4.266 final drive (stock F22 tranny vs. H22 tranny - same Accord Sir-T with the F20B). Anyhow, I parked it overnight and prepared to drive home. The engine was doing its idle surge and surging under throttle thing from the day before. 10 miles along on the freeway - no high engine temps - I heard a noise which couldve been road noise and then I got a drop in power and a CEL. I pulled over and smelled burning oil - popped the hood and saw white smoke coming out from under the oil cap.

Didn't want to expletive up the car or void my engine warranty, and so I had to pay for a tow back to his shop for $250 - since the shop was closed (Sunday) and the dude was not reachable. My initial thought was it was a blown head gasket - but I guess it could also just be that the oil cap was not on tight enough from when he added oil before letting me take it.

I was a little worried about detonation - I had 87 in the car, and then filled up with 91 - but that was only 9 gallons out of 14 in the tank. He told me just not to take it into vtec until i had emptied the gas tank and replaced with all premium. I followed that direction. No vtec the whole time I drove it.

Anyhow, the car is back at the shop and dude is not responding to emails/not available when I call. He sent me an email saying the car started fine for him and no problems, and the idle surge was getting better - but that was over a week ago. I had unplugged the battery when I left the car at the shop to help prevent theft - but when he replugged it, I guess I succeeded in erasing any ECU codes. His email basically told me the problem is that the tranny is geared too long and that the tall gearing is stopping the engine from revving fast enough - and that is in turn causing a misfire in the engine. Does that seem probable to anyone?

I did the math on the tranny (since of course he would want to tack on another $1500 for that) - and the only difference in first gear is 5% rpm's due to the final drive ratio since both trannies have same gearing of 3.307 in first gear. I'm thinking that down low in the powerband, say 1500 rpm, that 5% wouldn't make a bit of difference - 75rpm is definitely not causing a misfire IMO. If the low powerband torque is an issue there - since that's what would limit wheelspin and hence limit the revving, would it be a good test to put the front end up on blocks and try to rev then?

What do you guys think? A second faulty engine? Is it really the tranny? Any way to test? About the idle surge - that's a concern because of emissions since I'm in CA. He said he checked the IACV in his email, and the idle surge is normal due to air leaking in the engine which will work itself out after some driving - is that true? Everything I've read about idle surge indicates it's something you have to fix to make it go away.

I have done a lot of research, and I am pretty sure its engine problems... but I want to be sure before I start getting pissed at this dude. I feel like he's not doing any work on my engine right now - it's been sitting for a week as far as I know - and meanwhile my warranty time on the second engine is getting used up. I'm already into this for 5 grand... kinda sucks to have no working car at the end of it.

Any comments, suggestions appreciated. Also - any questions about the swap I would be happy to answer.

Loco-B

Yeah dude there is def. something wrong with that motor.......

its not the trans......i have an F20b sitting in my garage right now, and im planning on using the f22b manual trans i have in my accord now. With this swap there is no need for the tranny from the original motor or from a prelude. The final drive gearing will not make for the issues your running into now.

sounds to me like this guy is a little shady. i would have never nor will i pay anyone to do a motor swap. I'm going to get it done my self and if i run into problems i wont be out money, and have no one to blame but myself.

i'd say its motor number 2 that needs some looking into.

oem_certified_accord

i agree with loco, that ******'s jockin your strap.. you need to go get your **** back. he isn't gonna be concerned about theft if he's already robbing you blind of your money.

97LXF20B

Anyone have any ideas about the wheelspin test as a way to see if the tranny would solve the problem?

I talked to the guy later on yesterday - and he is convinced from driving it pretty hard - that the engine is running fine - and the only 'smoke' he can conjure up is steam from the oil cap if he opens it after running the car. Looks like my other problem may have just manifested in a loose oil cap when I was driving it.

One thing I gotta say about this dude - he is definitely thorough on the car... and pretty ****** cool. He has been doing 'free' labor for me for a while now since I am outta cash - he only billed me like 6 hours of labor on the whole deal - and we are way way beyond that now. He's still working out the idle stuff but I would definitely recommend him for his willingness to solve problems and work with the customer.




Modified by 97LXF20B at 12:06 PM 6/19/2007

RiceFed

I know you dont want to hear this but you need to swallow the money lost into the engine swap right now and take it to a competent shop that will be able to undo this guys f*ck ups. I know its alot of money to walk away from and it could cost you quite a bit more to get everything sorted out but from what you have said the engine could have something very wrong with it and this guy will continue to cover up his mistakes, its already been proven.

Sure it will cost you some more cash but in the long run you will have a car that is running right and that alone is worth the piece of mind.

97LXF20B

Yo dude -

Good lookin out.

I actually just went back and changed the other post. I think I was kinda buggin out cuz I hadn't heard from him in a week - but he apparently had to let one of his shop guys go and has been the only guy there for a couple days. Also, I talked to him and he went over all the **** with the engine - he basically handled all my concerns and confirmed the only problem is the idle surge. His definition of gutless and mine are very different. Mine is compared to stock F22. His is compared to his daily driver - an Evo IX with 406 wtq! So he thinks its gutless, but it seemed to drive OK for me... I'm guessing the oil cap was the main cause of my 'breakdown' on the side of the road.

I'll definitely keep updating as this moves along.

97LXF20B

So now... it drives slow starting in first gear - which I assume is due to my loss of displacement from 2.2 to 2.0 and hence some low end torque. It picks up fine once you get into any powerband - though the gears are obviously super tall, so it can rev for quite a while. He is telling me that on the other F20B swaps he's done with the JDM H22 tranny he has not had this problem of feeling gutless at low speed. Only thing is... the first gear is the same in both cars. 3.307. Only difference is the final drive: 4.062 vs. 4.266 - does anyone think this would make a noticeable difference in drivability? Per my above post, I think it only makes a 5% of RPM's difference at any speed.

So now the tranny questions begin - if I want this puppy to be relatively quick off the line - what do I do with the tranny? I am thinking I want to replace it anyway - because I don't need to be able to take 3rd gear up over 100mph. I was thinking that I might be better off swapping in a final drive of 4.4 or even 4.785 from a JDM ITR. Does anyone know if I can mix and match parts from a B-series tranny into an F? Or better yet - actually bolt up a B-series tranny into my Accord? If I can get the B2H conversion kit so the engine bolts up - would there be any other problems with doing this?

Btry7124

What ECU do u have installed?? Did u check timing, IAC or the TPS sensor for the surging?

nus_dogg

Old *** thread bruh. Always look at the date before you post.