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Car started randomly misfiring and after taking a look under the hood, noticed that the crankshaft pulley is vibrating quite a bit. Would the crankshaft pulley wobble be a direct cause of the misfires? I am truly unfamiliar with crankshaft work, but it directly coincides with the timing, so I'm assuming that is the culprit. If the wobble is causing the misfires, what would be my next steps? Any advice or insight is much appreciated since I have never needed to mess with the crankshaft before. Thank you in advance for your insight.
Last edited by KushConnoisseur; 12-13-2015 at 04:48 PM.
The timing belt isn't actually ON the pulley, it's right behind it.but you definitely wanna get that pulley replaced before anything is damaged internally
The timing belt isn't actually ON the pulley, it's right behind it.but you definitely wanna get that pulley replaced before anything is damaged internally
Thanks for the reply! I see what you mean.. So would the vibrating crankshaft pulley have anything to do with misfires?
It could have damaged the crankshaft rpm sensor....
TDC/CYP sensors are located under the cover behind the pulley.
If the bolt has just loosened tightened it up.
Crankshaft pulley is not just a pulley, it is also a harmonic damper, if it is not tight to the crank it will not function properly in controlling crankshaft harmonics. Don't run the engine until the pulley is reattached properly.
TDC/CYP sensors are located under the cover behind the pulley.
If the bolt has just loosened tightened it up.
Crankshaft pulley is not just a pulley, it is also a harmonic damper, if it is not tight to the crank it will not function properly in controlling crankshaft harmonics. Don't run the engine until the pulley is reattached properly.
It will not function properly, in turn causing misfires? I'll be sure to let it sit until I figure it out. How likely is the crankshaft pulley/harmonic damper bolt to come loose? Do you know what it needs to be torqued to? Thanks for your insight Mike
It will not function properly, in turn causing misfires?
They are hall effects sensors, magnetic pickups. If the pulley is flopping around it could be smacking around and causing all sorts of havoc. Mechanically and magnetically.
Originally Posted by KushConnoisseur
I'll be sure to let it sit until I figure it out. How likely is the crankshaft pulley/harmonic damper bolt to come loose? Do you know what it needs to be torqued to? Thanks for your insight Mike
If the bolt was incorrectly lubed and torqued, the bolt can easily back out. Shody mechanicos tend to use an impact gun rather than the proper crank pulley holding tool and torque wrench. And sometimes people just forget after installing the bolt to torque it down.
181ftlbs is the magic number.
Check the Accord FAQ at the top of the forum for more info on timing belt replacement(more info on bolt removal/install).
They are hall effects sensors, magnetic pickups. If the pulley is flopping around it could be smacking around and causing all sorts of havoc. Mechanically and magnetically.
If the bolt was incorrectly lubed and torqued, the bolt can easily back out. Shody mechanicos tend to use an impact gun rather than the proper crank pulley holding tool and torque wrench. And sometimes people just forget after installing the bolt to torque it down.
181ftlbs is the magic number.
Check the Accord FAQ at the top of the forum for more info on timing belt replacement(more info on bolt removal/install).
Thanks for the info Mike. I will rent the pulley holding tool tomorrow and test to make sure its snug up to 181. What if its torqued properly? Should I proceed to removing it and inspecting the inside portion of the damper? I wrote this post with "wobbles", but really it's more like its oscillating.
What if its torqued properly? Should I proceed to removing it and inspecting the inside portion of the damper? I wrote this post with "wobbles", but really it's more like its oscillating.
When you get under there is should be pretty evident if it is the bolt that is loose, or the elastomer for the pulley has gone to hell in a handbasket and now the outer ring is sloppy. This would still cause running issues as the alternator would not be charging properly(loose belt) and the undampened harmonics can play hell with timing as well as valvetrain control.
When you get under there is should be pretty evident if it is the bolt that is loose, or the elastomer for the pulley has gone to hell in a handbasket and now the outer ring is sloppy. This would still cause running issues as the alternator would not be charging properly(loose belt) and the undampened harmonics can play hell with timing as well as valvetrain control.
Well ****... I don't like the sound of that. -_- I took some video clips earlier, of you wouldn't mine taking a quick look.
When you get under there is should be pretty evident if it is the bolt that is loose, or the elastomer for the pulley has gone to hell in a handbasket and now the outer ring is sloppy. This would still cause running issues as the alternator would not be charging properly(loose belt) and the undampened harmonics can play hell with timing as well as valvetrain control.
Well ****... I don't like the sound of that. -_- I took some video clips earlier, hope you wouldn't mind taking a quick look.
Well ****... I don't like the sound of that. -_- I took some video clips earlier, of you wouldn't mine taking a quick look. https://youtu.be/ljufL8GVvIw
Appears the whole pulley is jumping, so it probably is just the bolt is loose.
If you have a 19mm socket remove the bolt and inspect it for any damage. Inspect the pulley and crank snout for damage as well, make sure the drift key has not been mushroomed or deformed. If it is fine reinstall, add some oil between the bolt head and washer, NOT to the threads, and snug it up.
Appears the whole pulley is jumping, so it probably is just the bolt is loose.
If you have a 19mm socket remove the bolt and inspect it for any damage. Inspect the pulley and crank snout for damage as well, make sure the drift key has not been mushroomed or deformed. If it is fine reinstall, add some oil between the b
olt head and washer, NOT to the threads, and snug it up.
The bolt came off rather easily so it was definitely loose. The woodruff key sticks out past the camshaft, is it supposed to? Also, are the teeth supposed to be relatively smooth? I took some photos. Please tell me what you think Mike!
Thank you so much for your help, I would be pretty lost without your feedback.
Last edited by KushConnoisseur; 12-16-2015 at 05:55 PM.
The woodruff key sticks out past the camshaft, is it supposed to?
Yup.
Crank is recessed a bit compared to the woodruff and damper. This allows the bolt to properly clamp those two to the crank for a snug fit.
Originally Posted by KushConnoisseur
Also, are the teeth supposed to be relatively smooth?
There are square teeth on the ID of the damper pulley, and there are the teeth on the OD of the crank sprocket for the timing belt. Neither should be sharp. Machined yes, but not sharp enough to cut.
Yup.
Crank is recessed a bit compared to the woodruff and damper. This allows the bolt to properly clamp those two to the crank for a snug fit.
There are square teeth on the ID of the damper pulley, and there are the teeth on the OD of the crank sprocket for the timing belt. Neither should be sharp. Machined yes, but not sharp enough to cut.
The teeth are almost nonexistent on the OD of the crank sprocket. What does OD stand for? Sorry, kind of a noob. Should I still just clean it up and bolt it back down to spec?
Yup.
Crank is recessed a bit compared to the woodruff and damper. This allows the bolt to properly clamp those two to the crank for a snug fit.
There are square teeth on the ID of the damper pulley, and there are the teeth on the OD of the crank sprocket for the timing belt. Neither should be sharp. Machined yes, but not sharp enough to cut.
Just finished putting it all back together. Torqued the bolt down to 181ftlbs, but the vibration still exists. Could this be because of the teeth on the crankshaft being worn out? As I mentioned, they are almost nonexistent. Also, in the inside of the damper pulley, there was one section, furthest from the motor, where the teeth were almost in NEW condition. The rest of the portion of teeth on the inside of the pulley were smoothed out as though the crankshaft is spinning freely, which doesnt seem likely considering that the key was still intact. The pulley DOES need to be replaced, considering that the teeth on the inside of it are smoothed out, but I believe there's no point in replacing it as of now, considering that the teeth its supposed to match on the shaft are also smoothed out. Correct me if I'm wrong, please. What would be my next step? Thanks in advance.
* I replied before the pics were posted via edit.*
Originally Posted by KushConnoisseur
The teeth are almost nonexistent on the OD of the crank sprocket. What does OD stand for?
Outer Diameter.
I was thinking of the crank sprocket teeth for the belt, not the same ID(inner diameter) teeth found on the damper pulley. Don't try to pull that lower belt sprocket off. Just wipe the crank snout snout down and the ID of the crank pulley.
Originally Posted by KushConnoisseur
Should I still just clean it up and bolt it back down to spec?
* I replied before the pics were posted via edit.*
Outer Diameter.
I was thinking of the crank sprocket teeth for the belt, not the same ID(inner diameter) teeth found on the damper pulley. Don't try to pull that lower belt sprocket off. Just wipe the crank snout snout down and the ID of the crank pulley.
Yeop.
Just finished putting it all back together. Torqued the bolt down to 181ftlbs, but the vibration still exists. Could this be because of the teeth on the crankshaft snout being worn out? As I mentioned, they are almost nonexistent. Also, on the ID of the pulley, there was one section, furthest from the motor, where the teeth were almost in NEW condition. The rest of the portion of teeth on the ID of the pulley were smoothed out as though the crankshaft snout is spinning freely, which doesn't seem likely considering that the key was still intact. The pulley DOES need to be replaced, considering that the teeth on the inside of it are smoothed out, but I believe there's no point in replacing it as of now since the teeth it's supposed to match on the shaft snout are also smoothed out. Correct me if I'm wrong, please. What would be my next step? Thanks in advance.
The 'teeth' are not supposed to be sharp. Those are just reliefs cut into the pulley ID. The crankshaft is smooth, it does NOT have teeth.
I understand what you mean by there not being an interference fit, but(AFAIK) none of these pulleys/sprockets are. You would think so to allow the steel to cold flow a bit for a tighter fit but I have never seen these components have a tight fit...
With that said...
If the 'teeth' are missing then yes the pulley probably should be replaced as it may no longer be concentrically mounted and those teeth would be a good indicator of wear without having to measure the bore. And of course an eccentrically mounted crank pulley would cause a massive vibration.
EDIT: But I have no idea, or reason why, such a component would have wear indicators on a part that is not meant to move anyway. Unless Honda felt it needed to do this to prevent reuse of an abused part. And the harmonic damper is pretty damn critical to have installed/mounted correctly.
Damnit now I have to call my engineering friends about this...
The 'teeth' are not supposed to be sharp. Those are just reliefs cut into the pulley ID. The crankshaft is smooth, it does NOT have teeth.
I understand what you mean by there not being an interference fit, but(AFAIK) none of these pulleys/sprockets are. You would think so to allow the steel to cold flow a bit for a tighter fit but I have never seen these components have a tight fit...
With that said...
If the 'teeth' are missing then yes the pulley probably should be replaced as it may no longer be concentrically mounted and those teeth would be a good indicator of wear without having to measure the bore. And of course an eccentrically mounted crank pulley would cause a massive vibration.
EDIT: But I have no idea, or reason why, such a component would have wear indicators on a part that is not meant to move anyway. Unless Honda felt it needed to do this to prevent reuse of an abused part. And the harmonic damper is pretty damn critical to have installed/mounted correctly.
Damnit now I have to call my engineering friends about this...
lol yeah it seems like a waste. So I popped a new crank pulley on, it was called a harmonic balancer at autozone, and it was MUCH more snug than the original one, but unfortunately after installing everything back to spec with the new balancer, it STILL vibrates, just not as bad. Could the crankshaft itself be bent as a result of the worn ID on the pulley? Or would another issue have caused the harmonic balancer "teeth" to get worn down?... My girlfriend of 6 months has had this car for a year now and god only knows how long she was driving on it with a bad harmonic balancer. Only reason I started looking at it was because of the cylinder misfires and noticed the wobbly pulley. Changed spark plugs first (they def needed to be changed and it cleared over half of the CEL codes for misfires, except P0300 and P0304), wires seemed good, but now I'm not so sure.) I honestly feel like we just wasted money by putting on the new harmonic balancer since it still has some wobble to it. Also, it seems to smooth out when you give it some gas... It vibrates the most when its idling (right around 1000 rpm) What should I look at next?
btw, what does AFAIK mean?
it STILL vibrates, just not as bad. Could the crankshaft itself be bent as a result of the worn ID on the pulley? Or would another issue have caused the harmonic balancer "teeth" to get worn down?...
Hard to say.
Sometimes there are components that may appear to be goofy but it could just be a perception thing.
Only real way to verfiy if the crank snout was bent would be to use a dial indicator mounted to the block and rotate the crank to look for runout.
Don't dismiss the wobble from bad engine mounts either. A 2.2 is a pretty big 4 cylinder engine, verify the wobble is really the crank and not the whole engine doing a slight jiggle while idling. Honda F series engines are pretty damn smooth with the balance shafts, automatics use a rear hydro mount that allows the engine to 'float' when the car is not moving/loaded. If that mount has gotten sloppy the engine may wobble a bit more than usual.
Originally Posted by KushConnoisseur
My girlfriend of 6 months has had this car for a year now and god only knows how long she was driving on it with a bad harmonic balancer. Only reason I started looking at it was because of the cylinder misfires and noticed the wobbly pulley.
Does she have any paperwork/maintenance on the car? How many miles on the Odometer? Valves need to be checked, and if need be, adjusted every 30-60Kmiles. Pretty easy for this to be ignored/forgotten with owners whom only oil/fuel and filter a car.
Originally Posted by KushConnoisseur
Changed spark plugs first (they def needed to be changed and it cleared over half of the CEL codes for misfires, except P0300 and P0304), wires seemed good, but now I'm not so sure.)
If the valves have not been adjusted in over 100Kmiles(or you have no records of it) check that they are. If the valves are too tight(usually exhaust side) the valves will not fully seat when at operating temperature and cause a misfire due to loss of compression.
Verify the EGR port in the intake manifold is clear, partially clogged EGR will cause a lean misfire at part throttle cruise. On the F23 it's a single port from the lower to upper plenum that gets clogged. Check the FAQ at the top of the page on how to clean the EGR ports. Your GFs car will need a $3-5 gasket for the upper to lower plenum, scrape out the port and use a vacuum to suck out the carbon and soot.
I'm not a fan of using carb/TB cleaner as that just turns soot into gunk and makes a bigger mess, unless the port is already oily then use the cleaner to remove the gunk.
Use TB cleaner to clear out the PCV valve, remove large vacuum hose from intake to PCV and clear out the port there as well. A faulty PCV valve/system on F series engines make them very susceptible to oil consumption.
Soak a rag in TB cleaner and wipe down the TB blade and throat for coking buildup. This could also be part of the rough wobble idle as well. Don't bother cleaning out the IACV. Novices tend to do this incorrectly and kill the IACV. I'd avoid it for the time being unless the engine is dying after a rev.
Originally Posted by KushConnoisseur
I honestly feel like we just wasted money by putting on the new harmonic balancer since it still has some wobble to it. Also, it seems to smooth out when you give it some gas... It vibrates the most when its idling (right around 1000 rpm) What should I look at next?
If the balancer was damaged it needed to be changed anyway. If you picked up the Dorman unit, that was only $50. A good investment for prolonging engine life. Without a properly functioning one, the engine would destroy itself in short order.
I would do a once over on the car, you have the aptitude.
If you do not have a set of feeler gauges I would recommend a set of 'offset'(has the bent ends) feeler gauge kit. Otterzone should have a set for ~$6-8. If the package is not a glued shut one, take the feelers out before purchase and verify that all the sizes for that particular set are there. Pretty common for someone to thieve a common blade size from the set, rendering it useless to you.
I'd also recommend picking up a 'brake bleeder' 6 point 10mm wrench. The offset and length make adjusting the lock nut a breeze.
Valve cover gasket is reusable, it often times sticks to the head, just gently pull it off. Wipe it down and use a dab or RTV at the corner where it goes from flat to a curve over the camshaft. Clean off any old RTV there and you should be golden.
Valve adjustments are usually just a time job, not parts/gaskets needed unless there is damage.
12-13-2015, 04:03 PM
99 Honda Accord LX - Wobbly Crankshaft Pulley
Re: 99 Honda Accord LX - Wobbly Crankshaft Pulley
Re: 99 Honda Accord LX - Wobbly Crankshaft Pulley
