95 sedan will only start if headlights are on
 

95 sedan, f22b2 with 266k

I figured I'd make a new thread with a more accurate title.

Basically out of no where my car started having this weird electrical issue, my car will start then immediately die if the headlights aren't on. I can turn the cluster and parking lights on and it'll run fine, sometimes if I brake hard the cluster lights will cut off.

So i replaced the headlight switch, ignition switch, and main relay with a known working one with no results. I tested the ground connections for the headlight switch and the ecm and they where all around .2-.4 ohms. I didn't check the ground connection to the chassis, it's somewhere under the center console but I can't find it for the life of me.

I checked the 3 pin connector at the under hood fuse box and the black/yellow wire was a 4.8 ohms, possibly this is my problem but idk for sure. Any ideas, thing I could look for, or any kind of advice would be awesome

Re: 95 sedan will only start if headlights are on
 

If you're doing voltage drops across the wires and picking up 4ohms, that's your issue.

Re: 95 sedan will only start if headlights are on
 

I'm only getting 4 at that one connector, which idk what it's for or where it goes. Everything else is .2-.4

Re: 95 sedan will only start if headlights are on
 

Well easiest thing will be to get a wiring diagram this will solve your troubles easily if you find one post it. The braking part is what's possibly telling me that a loose connector can be at fault due to sudden movements. Plus these crazy 4 ohm readings across a wire are crazy, possibly pinched or open and when braking would ground it giving electricity an easier path. This might be the same case for the headlights too / one has more resistance than the other and not a good enough ground, etc... On one end.

Re: 95 sedan will only start if headlights are on
 

I have the diagram for the cluster lights, ground distribution and the headlights, but none of them involve this 3 pin connector to the underhood fuse box where I'm getting the 4 ohm reading. The diagram says it grounds to the chassis under the center console, but I could only find the two grounds that connect to the kick panel

Re: 95 sedan will only start if headlights are on
 

Bump for ideas. Does anyone know where the ground location is under the center console?

Re: 95 sedan will only start if headlights are on
 

I think I found it, I was looking around the engine bay for anything suspicious when I found this http://i869.photobucket.com/albums/a...tricalfrey.jpg

Black/yellow wire from the ignition coil. It read at 4.8 ohms. I'm thinking this MIGHT have something to do with my problem. I'm going to look for a wiring diagram, see where this goes, and hopefully solve this by tonight.

Once again, any ideas or advice would be greatly appreciated. I haven't been able to find any other threads with a problem like this, so I need all the help I can get

Re: 95 sedan will only start if headlights are on
 

I bet someone installed a kill switch that only allows the car start if the headlights are on...

Re: 95 sedan will only start if headlights are on
 

How would I be able to find that? I know he has a security system (python 460hp) but I disconnected all that months ago. I've owned the car for over a year now and I've never had this happen before.

Re: 95 sedan will only start if headlights are on
 

Is there anyway you can record a video of this I'm getting stumped on the this one. Now look at your wiring diagram is there anywhere that shows on the harness or a connector where it shows the headlight circuit integrated with the ignition control module.

Because what it seems like is that this ignition Has a weak ground which then when you use your headlights it somehow jumps and uses that instead for a source. Don't know if the headlight switch is either a high side or low side but most likely low side because you wouldn't be able to get it started. That ground ( most likely your pointing at) can jump.

Some of these thoughts were straight up guesses of what can be happening. Follow the path backwards from the coil pack.

Good luck.

Re: 95 sedan will only start if headlights are on
 

Hopefully this will give you a better idea of what i'm dealling with

http://youtu.be/S_VbfVLrMD8

Re: 95 sedan will only start if headlights are on
 

I have a 91 accord that has a theft detour rant feature that won't allow the car to start unless the lights are on you could have this same feature

Re: 95 sedan will only start if headlights are on
 

Alright I'm on a mission for you I got a friend with the same exact car I'll start going through I'll ask some of my teachers and addition to everything here's something


Roach, Sorry I didn't get back with the fix. I had a lot of other problems that I had to fix. Anyway, after pulling and checking the starter, which checked OK,I started checking the wiring and found that the wires going from the start fuse which was supposed to go to the starter went to a little box under the battery shelf. The the box had a rubber boot over iy and a toggle switch under the boot. I toggled the switch and was then able to start the engine without first turning on the headlites.



There just has to be a switching device near a connector on a ground or power side just has to be. If your drawing blank on that back trace off the headlights. See if it's on that circuit

Re: 95 sedan will only start if headlights are on
 

UPDATE: So I checked the starter for a toggle switch and I didn't find one. I cleaned off the ground wire from the starter to the battery (it was hella dirty) and I still have the problem.

I took out the headlight fuses and disconnected the headlights and it STILL has trouble starting with the switch off. So it's not on the headlight circuit, I'm still stumped, any ideas you guys have would be awesome, I really want to avoid taking it somewhere to get it looked at.

Re: 95 sedan will only start if headlights are on
 

bump

So after looking over the wiring diagrams i found that the headlight switch and cluster circuits all share the same ground. It says the ground is located under the center console, but i can't find it. Does anyone know where this ground location is?

Re: 95 sedan will only start if headlights are on
 

Just take this to the Geek Squad and have them remove it for like $20.

Re: 95 sedan will only start if headlights are on
 

Seriously, the guys at best buy?

Re: 95 sedan will only start if headlights are on
 

Yep. They work for nothing at all. lol

Re: 95 sedan will only start if headlights are on
 

Anything new with this? Your best bet is take your time and follow the wires. Two a meeting then when you get it, thatll be it. I'm all out of guesses.

Switches, grounds, connectors. Toggles. Relays.

Re: 95 sedan will only start if headlights are on
 

Yeah, I'll just tear it apart again whenever I get a day off and I'll post the results. Of I can't get it after that I'll just take it somewhere. I have a feeling it's something to do with the aftermarket security system. I just gotta find I diagram for it.

Re: 95 sedan will only start if headlights are on
 

if it was a toggle switch then he would not even get 4ohms. he said its a python unit and python is DEI. Dei toggles kill everything running thru it. the ground wire is blk with silver dots correct? why dont you just ground it with your own ground?

Re: 95 sedan will only start if headlights are on
 

Notice he he said out of nowhere the issue happened, if he starts doing voltage drop readings across connectors or wires and grounds themselves can be false positives and lead you in wrong directions.

Re: 95 sedan will only start if headlights are on
 

I found a diagram from my security system and it has a "starter kill" circuit -__- so that'll be my first thing to check. Hopefully that's all it is but I'm going to figure it out tomorrow and post the results. Thanks again for all the help guys!

Re: 95 sedan will only start if headlights are on
 

Does this car have remote start? If you notice on cars with remote start, the parking lights turn on when the car starts via remote. The reason the lights turn on is because the ignition switch usually sends power to the main relay which starts the car, but since the ignition switch is in the off position when using the remote, the power comes from the lights.

This is just a theory, but try removing the alarm and reconnecting everything the way it was when stock and see if it works.

Re: 95 sedan will only start if headlights are on
 

I FOUND IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (finally)

I disconnected the aftermarket security system and it still refused to start without the lights on. After some more troubleshooting I noticed this thing

http://i869.photobucket.com/albums/a...etbullshit.jpg

Idk what the hell it is. I noticed it had two vacuum hoses connected to it, one going into the intake manifold and the other going into the fuel rail. I'm guessing it's some anti-theft mechanism but idk if it's aftermarket or what not. I haven't traced the wires yet but when I do I'll make another update.

If this isn't stock please let me know so I can remove it and send it back to hell.
Thanks again for all the help guys!