josh4trunks

Hi everyone,
I was wondering if I could get some help fixing up my issue.

It has been 100+ F here in Sacramento the last few days. My automatic transmission has been slipping like crazy and as my transmission seems to stop working all together. I hit the gas and my RPMs just hit 6K, but it is like I am in neutral. This has made it very dangerous to drive.
I noticed this happens more regularly when it is hotter, and when I get off the freeway and my car starts to heat up because the wind isn't cooling it well. I've had overheating problems before with this car and have solved it by keeping my coolant topped off. The thermometer isn't necessarily higher than the middle, but I think just the transmission is overheating.

I tried draining the transmission fluid, which was low, only 2 quarts came out. Then I refilled it with 3 quarts of genuine honda fluid. But this did not seem to make a difference.
I am not sure the next step here?

1. I could spend another $35 on fluid and drain it again, or multiple times?
2. Try to cool the transmission, does this transmission hook to the radiator?
   • I did not see any lines but I could just not know what to look for
   • If there are lines, should I buy an aftermarket cooler?

I also noticed a curved line under the car. Should this line be dropping so much? Thanks!

Vampire2o9

When the gears don't catch anymore, have you tried pulling over and restarting it and see if it works normally again?
With the way it has been I wouldn't be surprise the tranny is failing.

josh4trunks

Yes, pulling over, stopping the engine to let things cool for a minute, and starting again, gets the gears catching.

josh4trunks

I'm wondering if all of this could be caused by a loose battery cable? I drove 2 miles to home depot to grab a socket to remove my TCU.

When trying to head back home, turning the ignition shutoff all power. I checked the battery cable, which was a bit loose and gave a small spark when I tightened it.

I drove home and shifting seemed to work really well. But, it might just be because it was a short drive, and it's a bit cooler at night.

MAD_MIKE

Most likely what is happening is the sump pickup is clogging with debris. This happens on higher mileage vehicles that did not have the ATF regularly changed.
If there was quite a bit of gunk on the drain plug, this is a good indication. The reason the trans works after turning the car off is due to the sump no longer pulling the junk up into the pickup, it falls back into the sump and the pump is able to pull fluid and create pressure. Next time the trans stops working, listen to the transmission, if a loud whine is coming from the bellhousing area then that is the pump cavitating and no fluid flow. If you have an oil pressure test gauge, you can hook this up to the main port and watch for pressure. No pressure, no go.

Problem with Honda ATs is they don't have a removable sump pan. If you need to replace the filter it requires opening the case to replace it.
Tyler took it upon himself and found an easier way...
https://honda-tech.com/forums/honda-...dvice-3264675/

The large 'line' under the car is the shifter cable. It droops a bit on all Accords. As long as it is not lower than the exhaust you are fine.

Shifting will be affected by engine running condition and electrical power. But neither will cause a loss of power to the wheel. If the trans was overheating the fluid would smell burnt.
FWIW, the AT in these car is more like an MT. Only difference is shift forks are replaced by clutch packs.

josh4trunks

Thanks Mike,
There was a good amount of iron like sludge stuck to the magnet. I cleaned it off, stuck it back in several times and pulled small amounts of gunk out.

I'll checkout the method you linked.
So, will several drains of my trans oil not clean my filter very well?

somick

Drain and refill it two more times.

DO NOT OVERFILL!

As far as I remember you need to put in 2.7 quarts for a regular refill.

Good luck,
Sam

holmesnmanny

I would really suggest trying tyler's fix, it sounds like your tranny is a good candidate. If you're not mechanically inclined you could try finding a good mechanic that has a lot of experience to try to the fix.

josh4trunks

That sounds really scary drilling into my transmission, but let me see if I got the procedure down.

1. drain the transmission
2. jack up car
3. drill hole in the correct spot, making sure not to go to far
4. tap the hole, and plug it with a bolt

So, just drilling the hole in the correct spot will clean my filter screen out? Would this area no normally be drained out?
I don't need to remove my transmission correct? Just jack the car up?

holmesnmanny

you missed the part where they spray the gunk that is clogging up the filter with brake cleaner to clean it off

josh4trunks

Yeah, just re-read that. So, I think I get it.
The filter pulls from top down (towards the ground), so some gunk is clogging it? By spraying up, he basically just backwashed his filter and it came out of the drain.

holmesnmanny

it's likely going to drop atf fluid down after the gunk clears out

josh4trunks

Currently, I have another 5 quarts of ATF. I was planning on doing 2 more drains, one with about 2.3 quarts, drive my car around a bit, then another with 2.7.
I'll see how it performs, and decide to move forward with Tyler's Fix. It does seem pretty scary for me. I would be worried I either drill through the wrong spot, push through the filter, or my plug leaks.

bestofthe80s

Might I add, that draining and refilling the ATF will not clean all the old fluid out. Manual for my 01 says to drain, refill, drive and repeat 3 times to completely clear out any old, dirty fluid. It takes 3 fluid changes to clear it all out because fluid is trapped in the torque converter, etc.

josh4trunks

So I screwed up badly =[
I had my drill's torque setting low, it kept getting stuck so I increased it, and started pushing too hard. I made a hole, the size of a large grain of rice in my transmission filter.
It is hard to see in the picture I took, but I can see it fairly clearly with my eye.



I continued with the project, tapped the hole, filled it with RTV, plugged it. I am going to let it dry, and fill with ATF tomorrow.
Should I even continue to try driving this car or is my transmission done for and needs to be replaced? I was hoping to get another 1-2 years of life out of this car, but am willing to cut my losses if it is a safety hazard.

holmesnmanny

You have nothing to lose to see if it worked. Did you atleast spray the rest of the filter with brake cleaner ? Did fluid fall out when you hit the filter ? Worst case scenario is that you were going to need another tranny anyhow. Just run it and see if it leaks. If no leaks then just give it a light drive down the street to see if it works. Prepare for the worst so just drive safely.

josh4trunks

Yeah, alot of ATF fluid came out when the pilot drill bit broke through the metal. A little more when I used the 27/64 inch drill bit (and probably damaged the filter).
When using the brake cleaner lots of ATF, diluted with brake cleaner came out. I kept spraying in every direction until only clear brake cleaner was coming out.
I then flushed 1.5 quarts of ATF from the dipstick out of the new hole I made to hopefully remove most of the metal shavings and residual cleaner.

What is the worst that could happen, now that I have a hole in my transmission filter? I'm thinking any stray metal shavings could cause the transmission to seize, and I lose power (which is dangerous on the freeway / when crossing train tracks). I already somewhat rerouted my commute to work last week to avoid freeways/track crossings when my transmission was seizing from the clogged filter.
Probably a stupid question, but any chance the transmission could tear itself apart / explode and injure me?

holmesnmanny

i think just pouring some fluid through and draining it should be fine...not sure if that car has a magnetic drain plug but I would pick one up if it doesn't

just be safe and start by driving in a safe spot, i think the hole in the filter isn't something to worry about

josh4trunks

Yeah, it has a magnetic drain plug which was really dirty when I did my initial flush. But has been clean since then.

Ok thanks. I'm going to take it slow and try to only use this car for short trips.

josh4trunks

Well, so far, so good! I drove the car hard, even on the freeway a bit and could not get the transmission to slip like it was doing before.

I filled the transmission with all the remaining ATF I had, about 3.5 quarts. The dipstick is now only registering at the lowest point, so doing this job definitely released more ATF from the system then the normal drain.
I bought another quart and will be adding it to top this baby off.

Thanks for the help. Crossing my fingers I can get another 1+ years out of this car, before saving up for something newer.

holmesnmanny

That is so good to hear ! Sounds like another happy customer, Mike

This really makes me wonder how Honda didn't have this already engineered into the car.

josh4trunks

I assume they expected the filter to last 20 years, with regular transmission flushes. I don't think they designed for the crowd using these cars 22 years later.

I inherited this car from my grandpa at 180K miles. He was strict in maintaining this car since he got it new, but I am not sure if he had transmission flushes done. I have not done any in the last 13K miles I have had it.

poorman212

If you are worried about the small hole, just install an in-line trans filter and call if a day

MAD_MIKE

Pretty much this.
It's usually around the 200K +mark that they begin to 'fail'. And the common answer we see here on H-T after asking when was the last fluid change is usually a resounding, 'Do what?'.
I've always found the AT filter changes on an AT to be a bit of a scam anyway. It's a closed system that does not deal with contaminants under normal conditions, and if the fluid is regularly changed it will probably not be a problem until much later. But other makes used to want to have them changed ~15-30K miles. And it was 'shocking' when BMW started shipping 'sealed' no maintenance transmissions.
Only thing is IIRC the fluid goes throughout the trans before it hits the cooler lines(where a filter could be installed) before dumping it onto the differential and then flowing into the sump. And IIRC the diff sump is actually the lowest point in the trans, so gunk can build up in there. Ideally it gets flushed out to the sump proper and the lowest point is the drain/magnetic pickup.

If you are feeling crafty, you could try cutting out a piece of metal mesh screen and with some picks jamming it into the sump pickup hole, or purchase an older(cheap) GM AT filter and cutting a piece of filter media out of the GM filter and use it to cover the hole if you are worried about it. It's usually a cotton-ish looking stuff, might be able to cram a piece in there. Then you could have a getto filter change when you replace the fluid. Pull out the cotton ball with some tweezers, cram it back in with a pencil. Plug, refill, drive.

josh4trunks

Well unfortunately my transmission started acting up again a few days ago. Today it got to the point where I had slipping, and eventually false neutral. =[

Here are some observations...
* It was once again very hot today, over 100F in Sacramento. But I did also experience slipping on my way home in the evening when it wasn't scortching hot.
* I smelled something burning from the engine, maybe rubber? Might be unrelated but I started noticing this yesterday.
* It acts up it is after I am driving at high speed ~60MPH then exit from the freeway and sit at a light. After that I jump into false neutral if I am not very careful with the gas peddle.
* But, I do have another clue that I did not have before! If I use a paper clip to read codes from the car, I get error #15 "Ignition output signal".
* My temp gauge is always a bit below the middle, or slightly above the middle
* I checked my ATF and it was slightly above the max fill line.

My theory is on the freeway the engine block warms up since the pistons are working hard, but are being passively cooled by the wind. When I get of the freeway I lose the passive cooling (my fan rarely turns on unless my temp gauge is all the way up), but the block is still very hot and causes issues with my igniter.
I very well could be wrong though since I am a newbie with cars.
http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showpost...76&postcount=8


Is it possible this is just a bad igniter? I am thinking I should just order this and replace what I have?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ignition-Spa...L/371044495842

Thank you everyone for your continued help. Hoping to get to the bottom of this so I have a reliable car, and don't need to figure out how to buy a new one.