Budster

With these details I'm confident we're about to fix this...I've been browsing the tech posts; some of u guys are GOOD! I'm not familiar with the every day mannerisms and nuances of my daughter's 94 Accord because I don't drive it much. Here's what I know: she commutes about an hour daily to and again from work; rear bumper has collected black soot eminating from tailpipe area, car has been dying randomly on the highway during the commute and will usually restart after a few min, sometimes becoming hard to start in morning with extended cranking before starting, and finally died during the commute requiring a tow home and has not restarted since. While cranking and engaging the starter you can hear the fluttering sound of weak combustion, unlike the dead cranking sound of an engine lacking the combination of fuel and fire. Kinda sounds like maybe it''s only burning fuel in 1 cylinder and not able to carry the load of the compression, or maybe like its out of time and just flat flutters and dies as soon as you let off the key and disengage the starter. (As long as the starter is turning the engine you can hear the combustion of fuel burning, which flutters out and stops immediately when starter stops.) I'm taking the systematic approach before replacing a bunch of parts and sensors; here's what I've determined: I hear the fuel pump come on with the key and hear the fuel rail fill, and also have visible fuel when opening the pressure relief fitting on the fuel rail. Fuel pressure regulator appears ok with no appearance or odor of fuel in the hose. I have pulled all plug 4 wires and jumped spark from each to the block, replaced plugs & distributor cap & button, observed spark jump from the coil tip back to the base of the distributor while cranking with cap off. Aligned timing marks to TDC with #1 up and observed button still oriented toward #1 to verify timing integrity. I can hear at least 1 relay click under the dash when turning key, but uncertain if hearing the main relay, fuel relay, or both (I'm assuming both relays are working since I seem to have fuel and fire, although uncertain how strong my fuel and fire are). When checking MAP signal from PCM, the center wire checked good for ground continuity (#2 wire in the tech diagram I saw); however, the #1 wire test (with key on) fluxtuated between .004 and .005 VDC . The tech info I was referencing said it should test good at 5.0 VDC, not the .005 result I got. Shall I interpret this as a bad PCM? Additional info, uncertain if related: when I turn the key to the 1st and 2nd positions there is no response from the dash indicator lights; when I barely turn the key a little further into the beginning of the spring-loaded portion of the switch but still short of engaging the starter, then the dash lights come on (check engine, abs, transmission indicator, etc). I can't say if this symptom is new or coincidental with the current problem of dying/no start because I never drive this car, and I also cannot say what dash indicator lights illuminate or not when engine is running. Jiggling the key does not appear to reveal faulty or intermittent electronics within the ignition switch; however, there has been an occasion in which the key was difficult to turn and required manipulating the key and steering wheel together to turn the key (rare, 2 or 3 occasions recalled in the past 4 yrs she has had the car, which was previously a low mileage grandpa car since new). When I probe the blue diagnostic plug under the glove box nothing happens on the dashboard display while the key is in the first 2 positions; when I barely turn the key a little further and hold it into the beginning of the spring-loaded portion of the switch but still short of engaging the starter while the diagnostic plug is probed, then the dash indicator lights again come on and give codes in the following manner: abs light flashes a code (I think I remember it being 87 or something I looked up as a wheel sensor), transmission D4 indicator flashes 5 times, and the check engine light comes on and stays illuminated solid with no code flashed. All lights go out when the spring in the ignition/key is released back into the 2nd position. Is this indicative of bad PCM or anything else? I've seen that you guys are good in the tech section, so what's up with this honda??? Oh ya, don't shoot the messenger...fyi: she's ran this thing so low on oil in the past that once when I checked it for her I could not see it on the stick. We checked it because her mom said it made an unusual noise and puffed smoke when she started it, so she shut it down and had me investigate. It quieted down after a fill up with synthetic quaker state defy for high mileage (chose this even thought it only has 95,000 mi because it burns and leaks oil). It has seemingly been running ok for several months since then until the recent dying/hard & no start problems over the past month or so. Another time a few weeks prior to the current problem I found it 3 qts low. These things are tough; hasn't hinted a sound of internal mechanical failure after filling up, although the top end is a little more noisy than it used to be before she cooked it. Good thing she drives easy like grandad! Now u know everything but the color of this car; what's wrong with it?

LeeMajors19082

I'm not sure what reference material you're using, but if it's a Honda shop manual or a Hayne's, Helm's, Chilton, etc... and your PCM voltage is reading that far off, I would definitely start there. And I would also start addressing those oil leaks asap. Even when my engine wasn't leaking oil it was still BURNING through at least a quart every few hundred miles! And the combination of the 2 was just ridiculous, literally everytime I drove it I was having to add oil. Also, one last thing, these ignitions have a tendency to go. So if it's already starting to give you issues you may want to look into replacing that also. I know it's not much but I hope this helps and I'm sure one of the guru's will chime in soon enough and hopefully get you sorted out. GL

Budster

Thanks for the info million dollar honda man! I don't have a manual so i've been looking online for what seems to be the most reliable info applicable to the closest make and model I can find; I think I was looking at a map/pcm test procedure for a 93 but there's probably no difference for that test on the 94, unless the target voltage is different. I was also thinking pcm but wanted to let the honda gurus weigh in before I begin buying parts. I'm pretty mechanically inclined, but I don't do this every day so it's difficult to pinpoint all the potential causes and know the expected voltage tolerances, if I'm interpreting right, or if I am relying on accurate test info for the make/model. That's why I really liked this site when I found it, as u can tell some of these guys really now their hondas. Can't wait till the gurus get to this one; i'm pretty confident someone will likely recognize these symptoms and get it right off the rip.

LeeMajors19082

I like what you did there with my name hehehe! On a serious note tho I'm not sure where on here I found my manual but I KNOW it was in this section here:
Accord - Downloads - Hondahookup.com
Now keep in mind your daughters vehicle is a 5th gen so anything you find there that pertains to 94-97 Accords (with the exception of 6cyl stuff) should be applicable to her car. The chassis is pretty much irrelevant like you might see CD5,CD7,CD9, etc... the "CD" is just letting you know it's a gen 5 and the "digit" applies to the body style/version (iirc?) My point is as long as it's a "CD" (94-97) shop/service manual it WILL apply to her vehicle and you should be able to find all the necessary info to work on her car. I can't recall exactly which one I DL'd but I literally did my entire build from that manual. And of course with some help from the community here But ALL of the fundamental specs, voltages, wire locations, pin-outs, system locations, tolerances, nut/bolt sizes, step-by-steps, etc... etc.. ALL of that came from these manuals... and brother I swear to you, 3yrs ago when I started my build I had never so much as changed a tire on a car! And now I'm driving around in a turbocharged F22b1 Accord that I built myself. Check out that link and I'm sure you will find what you need. And don't be afraid to DL from there, it's a legit site with legit links and DL's, no BS. You don't have to worry about viruses or any crap like that. GL!

Budster

Thx bro, will do

Budster

Another guy told me a faulty Ignition module can cause my symptoms. I had assumed it was good since I was firing at the plugs; however, he said the module can interrupt the timing sequence for the fuel/fire combination and cause these symptoms. Any thoughts from the honda expert panel?