r_kage

Hi all--just took my car in for state inspection and was told that the right front lower ball joint needs to be replaced. However, last June (about 10,000 miles ago), I did replace both front lower ball joints, along with the upper control arms, sway bar links and wheel bearings since I had the steering knuckle off to replace the rotors (which appeared to have never been replaced) and brake pads.

So, I started thinking last night... maybe this isn't a ball joint issue, maybe the lower control arm needs to be replaced. Or maybe I should have ordered a different ball joint (I think I used mastercraft from O'reilly's last year since it was the only thing locally in stock), where I'm reading right now that, for example, MOOG makes a so-called "problem solver" that can fit the larger, worn sockets of older control arms.

Since I can't be sure, I ordered both the Moog problem solver ball joint K9643 along with the ACDelco 45d3322 lower control arm, and these parts should arrive Friday.

Kids start school next week, along with all the activities, so I'm not too sure whether I have time to do this job myself or not. So I'm wondering:

1) If I were to do this job myself, how long should it take? What can I expect? I cannot find a single video of someone replacing the lower control arm 94-97 accord, and from videos of different vehicles, it seems the procedure (and parts, parts shape, etc) varies quite a bit. My Haynes manual isn't very clear... says to remove fork from strut assembly and support control arm while doing that, but does anything need to be supported after that? I don't want an issue with the strut not fitting back in or something like that. Some videos show removing the axle from steering knuckle, others don't--wondering what the case is for '95 accord. I really wouldn't want to have to remove the whole steering knuckle to replace the lower control arm.

2) If in fact the Moog Problem Solver ball joint is sufficient, how would you visually check that? Just pop the old ball joint out and see whether the new one fits in easily (not good) or would require pressure? Is there a way to determine easily whether or not I have to replace that whole arm? Similarly, if I replace the arm, is there a way to tell easily if the ball joint I installed last year can just remain in the steering knuckle?

3) If a shop performs the repair, how long do you think it should take the professionals to do this?

4) Finally, if I do this myself, I'd like to know what size extra bolts to have on hand in case they break or get stuck and need to be drilled out. I see the part number for the lower control arm bolt on Honda's estore parts diagram, but not the size; and also don't see the part numbers for the bolts that hold on the radius rod to the lower control arm, nor any of the nuts. My luck I decide to work on the car and break a bolt Sunday morning...

I have spent a good amount of time searching on this forum and elsewhere, but if I missed a good thread that helps me arrive at the best decision, I'd be happy if you point me in the right direction. Thank you!

holmesnmanny

take your car to a different inspector, theres no way your ball joint is bad after only 10k

r_kage

Yeah, I was in disbelief and made him show it to me. The mechanic put a bar between the knuckle and control arm and had no problem moving the knuckle up and down. He showed me how the other one (which I replaced at the same time) is not doing that, and I think I trust him for now. He agreed that the ball joint itself should be fine based on what I said and the boot is intact. That's why I'm thinking it could be the control arm, especially after reading how they can wear out. I didn't even think about asking him to look at the control arm when I was there. Supposedly, the Moog ball joint I ordered can compensate if that socket is enlarged--how much, I don't know, so I'm also hoping to get more feedback on that, too. My parts don't arrive until Friday, so the soonest I'd get service is Saturday unless I decide to do it myself (which I haven't ruled out).

holmesnmanny

unless the control arm is cracked which would make driving impossible either the castle nut isnt tightened down or the ball joint is bad, which is hard to believe its already bad

the hole of the control arm is not going to enlarge

r_kage

I think in some circumstances, the ball joint hole could become enlarged; and it's possible the ball joint I installed was out of spec. Until I jack the car up and take a look which I'm going to be doing shortly, it's all just speculation, but I still am hoping for some answers to my questions in the meantime. I will be doing the work myself, so any tips will be helpful.

I also have a question about the ball joint press tool: Is it possible to remove/replace the ball joint without actually removing the steering knuckle using that c-shaped press and adapter kit?

r_kage

OK... I jacked the front end up, and have no play whatsoever when trying to move tire back and forth or up and down by hand. I removed the wheel and likewise, there is no play by hand, and I did wedge a wrench (only thing I have that fit between the steering knuckle and lower control arm and tried to shift the steering knuckle up and it didn't budge. I didn't apply grand force, but when I had it in the shop, it looked like the guy had no problem moving the steering knuckle up and down by a similar method. I don't know how much force he used prior to showing me. I do know when the vehicle is on a lift, there is no load on the suspension. And maybe he did jar it loose, and now it's reseated.

BUT I do still have a question--hoping someone can answer this--if the mechanic can wedge the steering knuckle up, so this demonstrate conclusively that the castle nut was never tightened enough in the first place OR do I need to disassemble everything to examine the lower control arm?? I really need to know this because disassembling is quite a chore that I'd rather not do needlessly.

r_kage

Well, I took the cotter pin out, put 17mm socket on my torque wrench and the nut was not loose. Torque seemed a little too great, but I blame that on a bit of corrosion, so I backed it out and re-tightened it and I'm sure there were no problems there. I'm still wondering if there was a way for the mechanic to fake movement by leveraging the wrong spot. Is it possible--I mean, maybe he moved the whole assembly--steering knuckle, lower control arm and all--and maybe I couldn't see from my vantage point. BTW... if there is a better place to have posted this, is there a way to move it?

Also, does anyone know if that "b" ball joint issue applies to '95 Accords? Or just 1998-2002? What exactly does it mean if it's stamped with b? (Mine are aftermarket and not stamped... but still want to know.)

holmesnmanny

I told you that there was no way your ball joint was bad and you disagreed. You were wrong. I told you that the control arm hole wasn't going to enlarge and you disagreed. You were wrong. If I give you more advice I don't think you'd listen anyhow. Good luck.

r_kage

Holmesnmanny --With all due respect, you haven't answered a single one of my questions. I am not "wrong," and I never said you were wrong either. IMO, the ball joint shouldn't be bad and the control arm shouldn't be bad, and I don't think that they are. However, when I was at the shop and was told the ball joint needed to be replaced, I insisted that I didn't think so, the mechanic showed me that there was significant movement and I do want to know what I was seeing. If I take my car back, I'm pretty sure it's going to pass and I'm still going to want to know why I saw that movement. You see, if it were just me, I'd probably not give a second thought to this; but school starts this week and I will be driving kids back and forth to activities 4-5 times a week, and having read of ball joint failure inside a month of replacement--sometimes twice on same vehicle--and having read of lower control arm socket enlargement due to factors such as faulty ball joint installation as well as poor alignment, I don't think it's out of line at all for me to try to cover the bases here. I'd rather look stupid in your eyes, than have my kids dead because I believed the first thing I read.

theotherchris

You need to jack the car up again, with the wheels slightly off the ground, put the Jack stands of the frame, not the control arm. Then have someone place a pry bar under the wheel, and lift the tire up, while you look at the ball joint and see if there is any movement. Then , lift the control arm slightly with the jack and pry the tire again. You need to test it with and without a load on the ball joint. Grabbing the tire at 12 and 6 will often NOT show a bad ball joint, as ball joints arent as subject (as often ) to the inward / outward movement like a tie rod is, bUT rather on a virtical axis.

It IS possible that your ball joint has gone bad, because you installed a cheap *** bad part of China product. Going with moog is a small step forward.

r_kage

Well, I don't put on cheap parts, but in this case, I found a torn boot while doing other service and ended up buying what the store had in stock, as opposed to ordering parts like I normally do, which means I have Moog upper control arms, wheel bearings and sway bar links; but a different brand of lower ball joints and might be regretting that. I'm going to try checking the ball joint with that method when I get home this evening and see what I find. Question Other Chris: If the ball joint is bad, then it's going up and down inside the housing, not up and down where sits in the control arm? If it turns out to be necessary, do you know if the ball joint can be changed on the vehicle with a ball joint c-press and adapters? Thanks so much!

The car is going back for inspection Tuesday.

theotherchris

Mastercraft Is a tire made and owned my cooper. You installed a master pro part, which, is a cheap part. It was all they had, I get it, we've all been there. It Is what it is.

Moving forward, this is a honda accord, the joint isn't pressed in the control arm, it's pressed into the knuckle. If the joint has play, within its own housing, it's junk. If the shaft is moving, then the castle nut isn't tight, the shaft is tapered it will tighten down.

r_kage

I took the car back to the shop to have them show me how they tested the ball joint again, and definitely, the ball joint is bad. I wish I didn't doubt that going into the weekend because I'd have saved $300, but I did genuinely dread having to take it apart and go to two separate auto parts stores to borrow ball joint tools (one had the adapter set but not the press available and vice versa with the other), and I think I needed to see them do the test again. If any good comes out of this, it's that the reputation of this shop for being honest holds up, and I've been to enough shady places (which is a big reason I started doing some of the work, and am rewarded by being more informed at least when I can't get around to doing something.) Thanks, Chris--learned a huge lesson about the lower ball joint and will gladly wait the extra time for good parts to arrive in the future.

holmesnmanny

some places use an air hammer to try to press the new ball joint into the knuckle, which causes damage to the bj instead of using a ball joint press