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I have finally cleared some excess projects from the shop and am ready to start gathering parts to put my Accord together. It is a 5 spd car, and I would like to see somewhere around 200 hp out of it. I just want a fun, reliable daily. I have been thinking about a simple turbo setup with 7 psi or so, but am not for sure. It is originally a non Vtec F22B2. At 310k or so I pulled the head to fix a blown head gasket. I had the head rebuilt, but found an importer where I could get a JDM F23A from for 250 bucks. That was cheaper than an OEM head set and bolt set, so I bought that. It has all been sitting for a couple of years, and now I need to decide what to do with it all. I have been trying to scavenge what info I could on the F series and trying to decide how exactly I want to build this thing. According to the info I have found, the F23A has 9.8:1 CR, while the F22B2 had 8.8:1. The USDM F23A1/5 had 9.3:1. If I just drop the F23A in complete I will need the IAB adaptor for the F23 intake as well as a Vtec ecu and wiring for the system. I have been thinking about just putting my F22b2 head on the F23 short block to simplify that, but I suppose the simplification would be a wash. According to some sources the F22b2 had a slightly larger intake valve, but it seems the combustion chamber size is the same. If I leave the engine NA, I was wondering about using a Delta regrind cam to help with the power, would there be an difference or advantage to consider between using the Vtec head or not with the cam regrind?
I am also mulling over exhaust options. I would consider running a cheap header if there really are gains, but don't have a problem just running a port matched and polished manifold. My F22b2 manifold is cracked, and I don't think the F23 unit will line up without redoing the exhaust, so I am going to have to buy something either way.
I guess to sum it up, I want to put the best package together with the parts I have. Not looking for insane power numbers or anything super flashy and loud, I just want an enjoyable driving experience from my ride, with a side of fun when I want to feel 16 again. So I am open to suggestions and opinions from those more knowledgeable than I in the F series game.
Rob
Last edited by jollyhonda; 04-23-2017 at 05:06 AM.
The F22B2 does not have larger intake valves. It has the smallest. The F22B1/F23xx have the 1mm larger intake valves. It's not worth swapping over the F22B2 head to the F23 block at all. The F22B2 head is the worst out of all the SOHC F series heads. Compared to the F22B2 head, the F23 head has 1mm larger intake valves, a slightly more aggressive cam, VTEC(obviously), and roller rockers.
It's a very simple swap converting the car to run the F23. You can pick up a VTEC subharness of off eBay, Rywire, etc which will allow you to add what's needed for VTEC without any fuss really. You need the IACV adapter from RoskoRacing to convert the F23 intake manifold from a 3 wire to 2 wire IACV that the OBD1 vehicles used. F23s don't have IABs so I'm assuming that's what you meant by IAB. You will probably have to extend a few wires but that's about it. If staying relatively stock NA, you can simply use an ECU from a 94-95 Accord EX that came with an F22B1. The F22B1 and F23 series are so similar that the ECU can make the adjustments required without issue. This is your best option to have a stock-like running vehicle. If you decide to go turbo you will need a chipped OBD1 ecu.
You will have to decide which way you want to go. It sounds like you still have a swap to do before you even consider boost. These engines are excellent options for boosting but properly boosting something is expensive and requires a lot of learning. Typically that also means you end up working on the vehicle more, have to do increased maintenance, etc. I will say that building one of these engines for NA performance, beyond simple bolt-ons and maybe a few other things, is definitely an exercise in futility. They just don't flow well enough without a lot of work. For an NA build, it's much more practical to switch to a DOHC engine.
I do ultimately need to decide for sure what to do. I am very seriously thinking about boost, but the problem is I really miss the car and want to get it back on the road, and the turbo route would mean more time passing while I collect parts and put everything together. As it stands, I don't have an exhaust manifold for the car, so I can buy a stock replacement, a header (cheapo or otherwise), or a turbo manifold. And the build goes from there. The F23 is already 20 hp more than the F22b2, so that is alreasy around a 20% increase in power, so that in itself is exciting.
It's gonna easily be $3500-4000+ for a decent turbo setup, electronics, tune, etc since you're starting from scratch. That doesn't account for all the maintenance that should be done prior to installing the engine or the extra things you need to install the engine to begin with. If finances or time are going to be an issue, I can tell you right now that boost is not for you. There's a lot of custom work required with boosting this chassis because it's much less modified than a Civic.
That being said, sounds like you would be more satisfied with just a "little extra". Do the timing belt, water pump, seals, etc on the F23, throw in a lightweight flywheel, maybe a balance shaft delete, some bolt-ons and go. The lightweight flywheel and balance shaft delete will go a long way in making the engine much, much more responsive. IIRC, between the two they free up something like 28-31lbs of rotating mass depending on the flywheel and also free up some horsepower. Don't bother with a cheap header. They're junk. Just find a stock exhaust manifold from an F22B1 Accord. It's a 4-2-1 design(over the 4-1 design of the B2) and will flow more than enough for a relatively stock engine. The top halves of the F22B1/F23 exhaust manifolds are identical but I'm not sure about the lower halves.
You won't be that much out of pocket and can enjoy the car while deciding if boost is right for you. If you do, they will laugh at 200hp all day long. A healthy stock block will do 300-350whp easily and reliably.
I have the manifold on the F23A, I just need to see how close it is to matching the exhaust on the car. As far as the ECU is concerned, is there a more desirable unit besides the stock Accord EX unit? Wiring up the Vtec system shouldn't be a problem, I have the complete engine wiring harness on the motor, and I actually have 2 motors. I also have at least 1 ecu that came with them, but I don't think messing with it will be feasible...it is OBD2, and I believe may have the immobilizer with it also. I have been seriously considering the BS delete, I mean seriously, we all need less BS in our lives! I have also been looking at flywheels. My only hold up there is my wife will drive the car also, and I don't know if she will be patient enough to make the adjustment of driving it without getting frustrated and just cooking the clutch.
The stock 94-95 EX ECU is the best option for a stock swap. It runs the car like stock. Like I said, the engines are very similar so the ECU has no problem making the small fuel adjustments needed to accommodate the larger displacement engine. A chipped ECU with a basemap is an option but if you're not going to spend real money to get an actual tune then it'll be a wash. Any basemap you get won't run the car nearly as well as a stock ECU and will likely cause a loss in power and fuel economy. The 94-95 EX ECUs are like $50 off of eBay whereas a chipped ecu will start around $150 with a basemap and a legitimate tune is $400ish.
Balance shaft delete has no undesirable effects if you're using the stock rubber engine mounts. Maybe a very slight vibration at idle but that's it. Definitely worth freeing up the power and getting some engine response back. As for lightweight flywheels, 11lbs would be the lightest I would go on a street car. It's 100% streetable and after a few times driving it I doubt you or your wife will even notice it when taking off.
I just checked my F23's and they sure enough have the 4-2-1 manifold. I had never noticed that before. I guess I need to try and find a mid pipe to hook to it and I will keep that manifold. I have 2 so I may take 1 to the shop and do a little polishing on it, maybe help flow some. I will also have an extra F23 intake, so I may work on it a little bit also.
Well, it looks like I may be selling my Dd civic, so I am gonna have to thrash to get my Accord on the road so i can start driving it. So it looks like a bare bones swap and get it running for now. I guess once i start ordering parts and putting it together I will document the process here. What i have settled on is just swapping in the f23a with a balance shaft delete, light flywheel, the JDM exhaust manifold, f23 intake and a short ram intake (original air intake hose is falling apart). So, once the Civic is gone, we begin!
So I got out in the shop Sunday and started digging the old Accord out. I reinstalled the shifter I had modified 3+ years ago when I first tore it apart. I did some cutting, drilling and welding to modify the pigot points and such. I don't remember what I ended up with for shift throws, and all the linkages are off of the trans, but I will have to measure the throws when everything is back together.
I am wanting to use the F23 manifold. But i have to find a mid pipe. I am thinking maybe the mid pipe from a 97-01 prelude would possibly work. But if i can find a p prelude in a salvage yard, would it be beneficial to just grab the prelude manifold? It looks like a better design, but the gains could be negligible for the cost. Any thoughts?
Lower flange on JDM F23 manifold F23 manifold Prelude manifold
Wow...that was an obvious miss. Definitely not gonna work...
I have been doing some checking and searching. Apparently that is the manifold the first gen Odyssey used.
The section between the manifold and the cat is what I need to figure out. If I have to, I can have a muffler shop build it, I just don't want to mess with it if I don't have too. So does the F22B1 use the same manifold?
The upper half is the same. The lower half differs between the F22B1 and the F23 IIRC. Like I said, get the lower half or entire manifold from a 94-97 Accord EX. It'll bolt right up to your factory exhaust.
So does anyone have any experience/educated experience with Beck Arnley fuel injectors? I am trying to decide if I want to buy a new set and have found a really good deal on a close out set of Beck injectors. I think they are remans, but not positive. Hopefully by the end of the week I can start ordering parts.
Do you not have injectors already? Pop that engine in and fire it up. If you have issues then worry about new injectors. Your not going to get any gains unless you have a bad injector.
My trouble is always on the ignition side, chances are you will have some issue there on the first start up. Make sure you have spare coil, ignitor, distributor handy just in case.
My concern is the injectors laying around in my filthy shop for 3 years, and already having provided 300k miles of service. For 17 each I just bit the bullet and bought the new/reman units.
You were right to replace them. I've seen some bad things happen when reusing high mileage injectors. If anything, at least know you'll know that you'll be good on that front for many years.
01-15-2017, 12:24 PM
1994 Accord LX F23A swap, opinions/info wanted
