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WTF is going on with Iran?

 
Old 05-08-2019, 07:19 AM
  #51  
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Default Re: WTF is going on with Iran?

Originally Posted by Ross View Post
Even GK was not alive when we overthrew Mossadegh. He wasn't even conceived yet!

You and 020 have great memories when it comes to US interventionism but nothing else.

If Iran were a strong, unified society, the coup would have never worked. But unfortunately the Islamist undercurrent was gathering strength for a long time, and the coup only succeeded because the Mullahs abandoned Mossadegh over their fears of a Socialist uprising.
Oh now it is socialism's fault

Originally Posted by 90hatch94dsm View Post
our economy would collapse if we weren't killing all the brown people
You hear smart people saying that a lot


@Ross, have you considered the theocracy would probably not have lasted so long were it not for the western shill that was the Shah?
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Old 05-08-2019, 07:26 AM
  #52  
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Default Re: WTF is going on with Iran?

I think we are forgetting that there are Arabs of Orthodox, Druz and Muslim religions who are Israeli citizens and who are relatively free to live, work and travel where they want inside Israel.
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Old 05-08-2019, 07:27 AM
  #53  
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Default Re: WTF is going on with Iran?

21% of the citizens of Israel are Arabs, just checking Wikipedia quickly.
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Old 05-08-2019, 07:32 AM
  #54  
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Default Re: WTF is going on with Iran?

Originally Posted by scelestus View Post
But what were the other reasons?
Plenty. The Shah was weak.

But the Jewish thing is a huge part of it. Jews could live safely in Iran pre-1979, now they can't. It wasn't just a ****-you to Western intelligence agencies.

Originally Posted by scelestus
The coup that you just admitted that we helped engineer. The coup may never have worked if it didn't have help, so why blame the Mullahs?
Blame?

I'm pointing out that there were already tensions there. It wasn't just a case of "Western intel agencies destroy a perfectly stable Socialist country" which is how Moop will spin it. Mossadegh didn't just scare US/UK oil companies, he scared the Mullahs as well. They knew that secular/socialist currents in Iranian society threatened their power, and their Revolution was inevitable.

Without Mossadegh's removal, the Islamic Revolution might have happened even earlier.
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Old 05-08-2019, 07:33 AM
  #55  
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Default Re: WTF is going on with Iran?

Originally Posted by George Knighton View Post
I think we are forgetting that there are Arabs of Orthodox, Druz and Muslim religions who are Israeli citizens and who are relatively free to live, work and travel where they want inside Israel.
They can't forget something they never knew in the first place.

And they don't understand or care.
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Old 05-08-2019, 07:36 AM
  #56  
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Default Re: WTF is going on with Iran?

Originally Posted by Ross View Post
They can't forget something they never knew in the first place.

And they don't understand or care.
The head of Israel's border protection force is an Arab.
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Old 05-08-2019, 07:39 AM
  #57  
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Default Re: WTF is going on with Iran?

When I was in Israel a little while ago it definitely surprised me that most signage was in Hebrew, Arabic, and English.
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Old 05-08-2019, 07:40 AM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by George Knighton View Post
The head of Israel's border protection force is an Arab.
And this, from the link I posted:

The one destination where a trip to the synagogue does not necessarily involve a strangerís sweep of your inner thigh is Israel. But if armed guards are not covering all the synagogue doors in the Jewish state, itís only because the terrorists there have figured out they can get higher Jewish body counts at schools, shopping malls and restaurants. The country is everywhere vigilant, slightly flexed, tensing for the next punch. You can feel it in the handguns on the hips of bus drivers and the rifles on the backs of young women.

It is sometimes the hardest place in the world to be a Jew. At the Temple Mount, I once had an Israeli policeman warn me that if he so much as saw my lips move silently he would arrest me. Jewish prayer in Islamic Waqf jurisdiction is a crime. Such is the Jewish state at times.
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Old 05-08-2019, 07:40 AM
  #59  
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Default Re: WTF is going on with Iran?

Originally Posted by scelestus View Post
But what were the other reasons?


I don't know how much of a stomach we have for talking about the Shah's old regime.

The single biggest source of all their problems was that the Shah was a different religion, and the majority could never forgive him for that.

He was a modernist with imperial aspirations regarding the Persian Empire, which was irrelevant to the majority. The Shah had a habit of showing off how wonderfully splendid the New Western Iran was, when in reality he was hopelessly out of touch with the impoverished majority.

I doubt you have the stomach to discuss the activities of the Savak.
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Old 05-08-2019, 07:55 AM
  #60  
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Default Re: WTF is going on with Iran?

Originally Posted by George Knighton View Post

I don't know how much of a stomach we have for talking about the Shah's old regime.

The single biggest source of all their problems was that the Shah was a different religion, and the majority could never forgive him for that.

He was a modernist with imperial aspirations regarding the Persian Empire, which was irrelevant to the majority. The Shah had a habit of showing off how wonderfully splendid the New Western Iran was, when in reality he was hopelessly out of touch with the impoverished majority.

I doubt you have the stomach to discuss the activities of the Savak.
I've read a lot of short pieces on the Shah, actually. He's a very interesting figure; I don't find him to be the caricature that my earlier education depicted. His tendency to push modernization at the expense of his people does seem to be a major cause of his overthrow. As to Savak, I only recently learned more specifically what they did. Your doubt, I suppose, is now irrelevant.

Considering your knowledge of the subject, I'd like to know your opinion. If the '53 coup had not occurred, and also (I know this is critical) assuming Mosaddegh had not been able to continue to dive into the abyss of dictatorship - would you agree with the assertion that the Revolution would have come even sooner than '79?
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Old 05-08-2019, 08:24 AM
  #61  
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Default Re: WTF is going on with Iran?

Interesting read, thanks all.

It's pretty clear this is a distraction though.
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Old 05-08-2019, 09:23 AM
  #62  
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Old 05-08-2019, 09:50 AM
  #63  
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The WH initiated the whole thing too.

Two possible sources of the intelligence used......

Israel or........

Brazenly gas lighting the entire nation.
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Old 05-08-2019, 10:05 AM
  #64  
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Default Re: WTF is going on with Iran?

Originally Posted by scelestus View Post
...would you agree with the assertion that the Revolution would have come even sooner than '79?
It's hard to say. All moments of time are connected. If you change one moment of time, it is hard to predict how the other moments are affected.

Do you know much about Dean Acheson's interactions with Churchill, and then Eisenhower's interactions with Churchill?

What makes you think the Shah would not have deposed Mossadegh anyway?
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Old 05-08-2019, 10:06 AM
  #65  
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Default Re: WTF is going on with Iran?

Originally Posted by Knightsport View Post
Brazenly gas lighting the entire nation.
Nobody's talking about it, but that's on everybody's mind. :-(

The Pentagon was very surprised. Totally caught off guard.
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Old 05-08-2019, 10:14 AM
  #66  
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Default Re: WTF is going on with Iran?

Originally Posted by George Knighton View Post
It's hard to say. All moments of time are connected. If you change one moment of time, it is hard to predict how the other moments are affected.

Do you know much about Dean Acheson's interactions with Churchill, and then Eisenhower's interactions with Churchill?

What makes you think the Shah would not have deposed Mossadegh anyway?
This is the problem with historical speculation. It is very much impossible to say.
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Old 05-08-2019, 10:18 AM
  #67  
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Default Re: WTF is going on with Iran?

Originally Posted by George Knighton View Post
Nobody's talking about it, but that's on everybody's mind. :-(

The Pentagon was very surprised. Totally caught off guard.

Why would they? The trolls will just start their marginalization of the concerns the moment it is pointed out.

#fakenews #nothingburgers Everywhere.

Does the screwdriver know it's a screwdriver?
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Old 05-08-2019, 10:31 AM
  #68  
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Default Re: WTF is going on with Iran?

Originally Posted by 020 View Post
Wait, are you saying the middle East hates us because Jews can live freely in the US? Not because of a history of brutal regime change, perpetual wars, resource extraction etc etc?
Considering the ME has hated the rest of the world since ancient times, Iím going to simply disagree with you.
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Old 05-08-2019, 10:33 AM
  #69  
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wat
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Old 05-08-2019, 10:35 AM
  #70  
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Islamic expansion and the Crusades, dude.

ITT: Extremist Muslims would extremist Muslim whether or not us “despicable whites” had anything to do with it.
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Old 05-08-2019, 10:35 AM
  #71  
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Default Re: WTF is going on with Iran?

Originally Posted by 020 View Post
This is the problem with historical speculation. It is very much impossible to say.
Impossible to say, in this timeline.
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Old 05-08-2019, 10:37 AM
  #72  
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Originally Posted by Tokyosmash! View Post
Islamic expansion and the Crusades, dude.

ITT: Extremist Muslims would extremist Muslim whether or not us “despicable whites” had anything to do with it.
Wait, so you're citing another case of western invasion as proof that people from southwest asia are extremists?

btw afaik ancient times are generally considered as a time period before Islam was a thing
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Old 05-08-2019, 10:40 AM
  #73  
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Default Re: WTF is going on with Iran?

Originally Posted by moopmoop View Post
Wait, so you're citing another case of western invasion as proof that people from southwest asia are extremists?

btw afaik ancient times are generally considered as a time period before Islam was a thing
Would you like to go farther back to the Persian Empire? How'd they like the Jews?

Also why did the first crusade happen?
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Old 05-08-2019, 10:41 AM
  #74  
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Default Re: WTF is going on with Iran?

It's almost like Obama's jcpoa created stability in the region then that retard trump scrapped it for zero reason beyond except that it was a democratic idea. As long as more people get killed trump will be happy <3
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Old 05-08-2019, 10:47 AM
  #75  
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Default Re: WTF is going on with Iran?

Originally Posted by moopmoop View Post
Wait, so you're citing another case of western invasion as proof that people from southwest asia are extremists?

btw afaik ancient times are generally considered as a time period before Islam was a thing
The Crusades were a counter to radical and violent expansion by Muslims

AFAIK youíre wrong again, considering the teachings of Islam were the uniting force in said expansion.
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