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WTF is going on with Iran?

 
Old 05-08-2019, 05:34 AM
  #26  
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Default Re: WTF is going on with Iran?

Originally Posted by malix View Post
Remember that time John Bolton promised regime change in Iran during a speech in 2017?
I sure do.

But to be honest, I've always had this bad feeling that we're on the wrong side of the Iran-Saudi conflict.

Hamas (Gaza Palestinian) money is coming from the Sunni Arab dynasties, not from Shia Iran.

Iran's money goes to Hezbollah and the Syrian Alawite regime, and Iraqis, not the Sunni Hamas regime in Gaza.

Everybody says that Iran has been in compliance with the antiproliferation agreement, and here we are about to screw it all because it's more important to have that unusual, [...] agreement with Riyadh.

[....]

[-r.s.]
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Old 05-08-2019, 05:36 AM
  #27  
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Default Re: WTF is going on with Iran?

Originally Posted by scelestus View Post
But it's already 2019, so he was probably only kidding.
John Bolton in the White House right now.


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Old 05-08-2019, 05:37 AM
  #28  
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Default Re: WTF is going on with Iran?

its still 2019

coincidence?

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Old 05-08-2019, 05:41 AM
  #29  
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Default Re: WTF is going on with Iran?

Maybe we will shoot down an Iranian passenger airliner and pretend it was a jet. Then we can not punish the captain of the ship and have some lulz. Oh wait we already did that.
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Old 05-08-2019, 05:49 AM
  #30  
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Default Re: WTF is going on with Iran?

While looking up pictures of the Iran air incident I found this fun article:


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAVAK
"In March 1955, the Army colonel was "replaced with a more permanent team of five career CIA officers, including specialists in covert operations, intelligence analysis, and counterintelligence, including Major GeneralHerbert Norman Schwarzkopf who "trained virtually all of the first generation of SAVAK personnel." In 1956, this agency was reorganized and given the name Sazeman-e Ettela'at va Amniyat-e Keshvar (SAVAK).[10] These in turn were replaced by SAVAK's own instructors in 1965.[11]
[12].......


A turning point in SAVAK's reputation for ruthless brutality was reportedly an attack on a gendarmerie post in the Caspian village of Siahkal by a small band of armed Marxists in February 1971, although it is also reported to have tortured to death a Shia cleric, Ayatollah Muhammad Reza Sa'idi, in 1970.[17]
[18]According to Iranian political historian Ervand Abrahamian, after this attack SAVAK interrogators were sent abroad for "scientific training to prevent unwanted deaths from 'brute force.' Brute force was supplemented with the bastinado; sleep deprivation; extensive solitary confinement; glaring searchlights; standing in one place for hours on end; nail extractions; snakes (favored for use with women); electrical shocks with cattle prods, often into the rectum; cigarette burns; sitting on hot grills; acid dripped into nostrils; near-drownings; mock executions; and an electric chair with a large metal mask to muffle screams while amplifying them for the victim. This latter contraption was dubbed the Apollo—an allusion to the American space capsules. Prisoners were also humiliated by being raped, urinated on, and forced to stand naked.[19] Despite the new 'scientific' methods, the torture of choice remained the traditional bastinado used to beat soles of the feet. The "primary goal" of those using the bastinados "was to locate arms caches, safe houses and accomplices ..."[20]"
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Old 05-08-2019, 06:03 AM
  #31  
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Default Re: WTF is going on with Iran?

Originally Posted by 020 View Post
While looking up pictures of the Iran air incident I found this fun article:
We didn't do that. That was different CIA. Definitely not one of a multitude of reasons that half the region hates us, amiright?

But speaking of the CIA and the Saudis: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-48199885

Originally Posted by article
An Arab pro-democracy activist says he was whisked away to safety by officials in Norway, where he lives, after being told of a threat from Saudi Arabia.

Iyad el-Baghdadi told the BBC he believed the threat was related to his work on Saudi human rights projects.

According to the Guardian newspaper, information about the threat came from the CIA, which then notified Norway.
That's the same Saudi Arabia that wants to see us move against Iran, just in case anybody's confused on the point.
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Old 05-08-2019, 06:07 AM
  #32  
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Default Re: WTF is going on with Iran?

I don't believe it. The Saudis would never do anyt.......
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Old 05-08-2019, 06:09 AM
  #33  
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Default Re: WTF is going on with Iran?

Originally Posted by scelestus View Post
We didn't do that. That was different CIA.
I know you're making a cynical joke but this is true.

Wanna know why half the region hates us?

Because this is the only country where Jews can live freely.

Even in progressive, tolerant Europe, it's a much less friendly landscape.

Let alone the Middle East.

But "Muh Apartheid State"
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Old 05-08-2019, 06:12 AM
  #34  
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Default Re: WTF is going on with Iran?

I'm sure that's the only reason.

-_________________________________________________-
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Old 05-08-2019, 06:13 AM
  #35  
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Default Re: WTF is going on with Iran?

Originally Posted by Ross View Post
Because this is the only country where Jews can live freely.
So the Balfour Declaration was just designed to get all the English Jews to move to Palestine? :-)

And Baron Rothschild has no power at all? :-)
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Old 05-08-2019, 06:14 AM
  #36  
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Default Re: WTF is going on with Iran?

Originally Posted by Ross View Post
I know you're making a cynical joke but this is true.

Wanna know why half the region hates us?

Because this is the only country where Jews can live freely.

Even in progressive, tolerant Europe, it's a much less friendly landscape.

Let alone the Middle East.

But "Muh Apartheid State"

Ahh religion. The root cause of almost all wars.
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Old 05-08-2019, 06:16 AM
  #37  
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Default Re: WTF is going on with Iran?

The answer a friend gave me was that the B52 can be on station much faster than any naval forces, about two days earlier, and they would be able to target any physical installation of IRBM that we discover, or any ship transporting the IRBM that we discover.

It was specifically denied that we were using the Astute class or the B52 for any kind of attack on mainland Iran.
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Old 05-08-2019, 06:24 AM
  #38  
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Default Re: WTF is going on with Iran?

Originally Posted by Ross View Post
I know you're making a cynical joke but this is true.

Wanna know why half the region hates us?

Because this is the only country where Jews can live freely.

Even in progressive, tolerant Europe, it's a much less friendly landscape.

Let alone the Middle East.

But "Muh Apartheid State"
Wait, are you saying the middle East hates us because Jews can live freely in the US? Not because of a history of brutal regime change, perpetual wars, resource extraction etc etc?
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Old 05-08-2019, 06:25 AM
  #39  
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Default Re: WTF is going on with Iran?

Originally Posted by Ross View Post
I know you're making a cynical joke but this is true.
Wanna know why half the region hates us?
Because this is the only country where Jews can live freely.
Even in progressive, tolerant Europe, it's a much less friendly landscape.
Let alone the Middle East.
But "Muh Apartheid State"
You probably know I won't entirely disagree with this, but to say this is the "only" country is awfully hyperbolic. We're certainly better than many, but don't forget who keeps getting shot around here (besides students and brown people, I mean).

This didn't need to become an Israel thing. Don't do that.

Why'd you ignore the part about the Saudis tho?
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Old 05-08-2019, 06:28 AM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by scelestus View Post
You probably know I won't entirely disagree with this, but to say this is the "only" country is awfully hyperbolic. We're certainly better than many, but don't forget who keeps getting shot around here (besides students and brown people, I mean).

This didn't need to become an Israel thing. Don't do that.

Why'd you ignore the part about the Saudis tho?

You should disagree. It's a flat stupid statement steeped in personal bias. It demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of middle East politics. It ignores the many other things they could hate about us, even gay rights. It ignores that the West has decimated the region. And then throwing in "muh apartheid state" to minimize the plight of the people in the Strip is amazing. It's a wholly laughably stupid statement.

A history of torture, theft, and literally millions of dead. "Dey hate our freddums!"
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Old 05-08-2019, 06:33 AM
  #41  
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Default Re: WTF is going on with Iran?

Originally Posted by scelestus View Post
This didn't need to become an Israel thing.
If the intelligence is legitimate (!) and went straight to the White House (and it looks like it did), then it had to be Israel or Russia.

That's not what your'e talking about, of course, but Israel's bound to be involved somehow.

I think.
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Old 05-08-2019, 06:35 AM
  #42  
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Default Re: WTF is going on with Iran?

Originally Posted by 020 View Post
You should disagree. It's a flat stupid statement steeped in personal bias. It demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of middle East politics. It ignores the many other things they could hate about us, even gay rights. It ignores that the West has decimated the region. And then throwing in "muh apartheid state" to minimize the plight of the people in the Strip is amazing. It's a wholly laughably stupid statement.

A history of torture, theft, and literally millions of dead. "Dey hate our freddums!"
To a certain extent? Yeah. But I was trying to engage in actual discussion on the one point that I hoped would result in a real exchange of ideas, and maybe move on to the guaranteed shitshow topics after that.

But we could also torpedo the whole thing to make sure everyone knows how wrong Ross is, that's cool too.
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Old 05-08-2019, 06:53 AM
  #43  
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Default Re: WTF is going on with Iran?

Originally Posted by 020 View Post
You should disagree. It's a flat stupid statement steeped in personal bias. It demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of middle East politics. It ignores the many other things they could hate about us, even gay rights. It ignores that the West has decimated the region. And then throwing in "muh apartheid state" to minimize the plight of the people in the Strip is amazing. It's a wholly laughably stupid statement.

A history of torture, theft, and literally millions of dead. "Dey hate our freddums!"
I threw in the Apartheid jab because you continue to beat that drum even though there's literally no skin left on it.

Read this (you won't)

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opini...mn/3649866002/

Yeah, gay rights are another reason they hate us. But yeah then you start getting into "They hate us for our freedoms".

Must be pure coincidence that Tel Aviv is the destination spot for gays in that region.

I hate to say it, but can you name an open-society Muslim country in the Middle East, where Christians and Jews and gays can walk around freely, own property, and serve in the political assemblies?

Iran was the best hope, and maybe still is.
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Old 05-08-2019, 06:57 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by Ross View Post
I threw in the Apartheid jab because you continue to beat that drum even though there's literally no skin left on it.

Read this (you won't)

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opini...mn/3649866002/

Yeah, gay rights are another reason they hate us. But yeah then you start getting into "They hate us for our freedoms".

Must be pure coincidence that Tel Aviv is the destination spot for gays in that region.

I hate to say it, but can you name an open-society Muslim country in the Middle East, where Christians and Jews and gays can walk around freely, own property, and serve in the political assemblies?

Iran was the best hope, and maybe still is.
The apartheid thing is completely relevant and continues to be. The problem with the word is that it harkens to SA which Israel is not. There is ethnic segregation though. And plenty of scholars and experts agree that Israel dabbles the line. Again I don't care if you agree or not and I don't blame Israel.

As for Israel being better for human rights. Absolutely. I agree. I don't believe the ME is angry at us for our freedoms though.
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Old 05-08-2019, 06:58 AM
  #45  
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Default Re: WTF is going on with Iran?

Just need a US backed coup, like last time right?

Ugh. Palm to face bigly.
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Old 05-08-2019, 07:00 AM
  #46  
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Default Re: WTF is going on with Iran?

look, this time an unending war is going to work
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Old 05-08-2019, 07:01 AM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by 90hatch94dsm View Post
look, this time an unending war is going to work
Good way to further enrich the Prince/DeVos klan
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Old 05-08-2019, 07:02 AM
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Default Re: WTF is going on with Iran?

our economy would collapse if we weren't killing all the brown people
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Old 05-08-2019, 07:13 AM
  #49  
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Default Re: WTF is going on with Iran?

Originally Posted by 020 View Post
The apartheid thing is completely relevant and continues to be. The problem with the word is that it harkens to SA which Israel is not. There is ethnic segregation though. And plenty of scholars and experts agree that Israel dabbles the line. Again I don't care if you agree or not and I don't blame Israel.

As for Israel being better for human rights. Absolutely. I agree. I don't believe the ME is angry at us for our freedoms though.
One of the main reasons the Shah was deposed in 1979 is because he was friendly to Israel, and the Jews.

One of the Mullahs' first acts was to sever all diplomatic ties with Israel and to declare their opposition to her right to exist.

You guys think that the Jew thing is just some little side/wedge issue, unimportant to the greater issue of resource extraction and coups. You'd be wrong.

Originally Posted by moopmoop View Post
Just need a US backed coup, like last time right?

Ugh. Palm to face bigly.
Even GK was not alive when we overthrew Mossadegh. He wasn't even conceived yet!

You and 020 have great memories when it comes to US interventionism but nothing else.

If Iran were a strong, unified society, the coup would have never worked. But unfortunately the Islamist undercurrent was gathering strength for a long time, and the coup only succeeded because the Mullahs abandoned Mossadegh over their fears of a Socialist uprising.
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Old 05-08-2019, 07:18 AM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by Ross View Post
One of the main reasons the Shah was deposed in 1979 is because he was friendly to Israel, and the Jews.
But what were the other reasons?

Originally Posted by Ross View Post
You guys think that the Jew thing is just some little side/wedge issue, unimportant to the greater issue of resource extraction and coups. You'd be wrong.
But why is it a wedge issue? Because it's a passionate conviction that would exist regardless, or because it's ginned up to help those in power maintain that power?

Originally Posted by Ross View Post
Even GK was not alive when we overthrew Mossadegh. He wasn't even conceived yet!

You and 020 have great memories when it comes to US interventionism but nothing else.
Why can't the ME have the same memory? Many cultures have a stronger sense of, and attachment to, history than we are used to.

Originally Posted by Ross View Post
If Iran were a strong, unified society, the coup would have never worked. But unfortunately the Islamist undercurrent was gathering strength for a long time, and the coup only succeeded because the Mullahs abandoned Mossadegh over their fears of a Socialist uprising.
The coup that you just admitted that we helped engineer. The coup may never have worked if it didn't have help, so why blame the Mullahs?
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