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Why is big gvt. bad, but big business good?

 
Old 01-08-2008, 09:31 AM
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Default Why is big gvt. bad, but big business good?

My dad and I were talking about "socialized" health care last night and he brought up a good point. A lot of people who are against a gvt. run health care system are okay with a private run system, similar to what we have now. Yet in contrast to private insurers Medicare doesn’t have to spend millions on marketing, advertising, and lobbyists. Private insurers must also generate profits for their shareholders, and are much less efficient because they have to constantly enroll, and un-enroll customers. Not to mention CEO/CFO etc. salaries. How can this be more efficient (from a cost and management standpoint) than a single system

I think it's already blatantly obvious to everyone paying attention that we spend WAY more on our health care (even for general care) than most gvt. programs. I think if you look at some of the socialized events that happened in our history (New Deal, Postal Service, even most military spending is mainly from private companies) you will notice that the gvt. does run more efficiently, and cheaper than private business in many instances.

I think there are probably more angles to run with this topic, but I've got some work to do before lunch

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Old 01-08-2008, 09:33 AM
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Default Re: Why is big gvt. bad, but big business good? (Superhatch)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Superhatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Why is big gvt. bad, but big business good?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Because people still fall for the Ronald Reagan/GWB style of rhetoric.
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Old 01-08-2008, 09:34 AM
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Default Re: Why is big gvt. bad, but big business good? (Superhatch)

Not that all big business is good, but businesses are about the bottom line. If it's not profitable, you're gone, meaning if you can't get costs down, you're screwed. Government? It doesn't matter what it costs, because you can get more money from the taxpayers.
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Old 01-08-2008, 09:47 AM
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Big Government is always bad, reguardless of what the liberals tell you
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Old 01-08-2008, 09:51 AM
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<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by S13Hatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Big Government is always bad, reguardless of what the liberals tell you</TD></TR></TABLE>

Since you are a Bush fan - what do you think of the fact that Bush presided over the largest increase in the size of the Federal Government in this nation's history? Not to mention his record on spending.
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Old 01-08-2008, 09:53 AM
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Default Re: (Ross)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Ross &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Since you are a Bush fan - what do you think of the fact that Bush presided over the largest increase in the size of the Federal Government in this nation's history? Not to mention his record on spending.</TD></TR></TABLE>

He doesn't know anything about that. It's beyond his comprehension me believes.
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Old 01-08-2008, 10:02 AM
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Default Re: Why is big gvt. bad, but big business good? (Kookz)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Kookz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Not that all big business is good, but businesses are about the bottom line. If it's not profitable, you're gone, meaning if you can't get costs down, you're screwed. Government? It doesn't matter what it costs, because you can get more money from the taxpayers.</TD></TR></TABLE>

There is a difference between upping insurance rates, or other ways of passing on cost to the customer, and raising taxes. Insurance rates keep going up, and up, and up...and so do their profits. I would think that at some point if taxes kept going up and up, and inefficiency kept going up and up, there would be politicians losing their seats, panels to investigate, and perhaps restructuring?

There is no penalty when consumers are getting taken for ride so that profits can increase (insurance, oil, most technology, drugs etc, etc.).
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Old 01-08-2008, 10:10 AM
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Default Re: Why is big gvt. bad, but big business good? (Superhatch)

The difference is that big business isn't conscripted. Big government is, more or less.
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Old 01-08-2008, 10:14 AM
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Both are bad.
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Old 01-08-2008, 10:37 AM
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I have been through socialized medicine. It's not good. Having to wait for an appointment and not having a choice in anything SUCKS. While socialized medicine has a lot of good....it also has a lot of bad.
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Old 01-08-2008, 10:43 AM
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I have no fantasies that socialized medicine is perfect, or doesn't have just as much of a chance as becoming as out of control as private insurance is now. I just think this country could do it well based on our Medicare/Medicade systems which I've read (looking for a link again) are the most efficient programs in our gvt.
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Old 01-08-2008, 12:09 PM
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i'm not here to defend big business...since bigger anything is generally less efficient. the problem with big govt (and most govt entities) is that as their size grows...their efficiency worsens. big business is good in that it does provide jobs for many...although big business has a stronger influence on politicians because of their wealth...so the ordinary citizen is not always in their best interests...

big govt also tends to encourage more dependency on the govt itself...which doesn't promote productivity or self dependence.
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Old 01-08-2008, 12:36 PM
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Default Re: Why is big gvt. bad, but big business good? (Superhatch)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Superhatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">There is a difference between upping insurance rates, or other ways of passing on cost to the customer, and raising taxes. Insurance rates keep going up, and up, and up...and so do their profits. I would think that at some point if taxes kept going up and up, and inefficiency kept going up and up, there would be politicians losing their seats, panels to investigate, and perhaps restructuring?

There is no penalty when consumers are getting taken for ride so that profits can increase (insurance, oil, most technology, drugs etc, etc.). </TD></TR></TABLE>
Wait. Insurance companies dont raise rates to increase profits, they do so to offset losses. If losses are in line they don't just jack up the price, they are not allowed to do that. Insurance companies increase profits by selling more of their product and keeping existing customers. There are plenty of laws that protect the consumerwhen purchaseing insurance, it's very highly regulated. The insurance company is always the bad guy but they are a business like any other.
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Old 01-08-2008, 01:32 PM
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Default Re: Why is big gvt. bad, but big business good? (Jedimiah)

Is there a difference between raising rates to offset losses, or to generate profits? Each one is all about share price.
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Old 01-08-2008, 01:49 PM
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Default Re: Why is big gvt. bad, but big business good? (Superhatch)

The biggest problem comes down to accountability. No one holds the federal governemnt accountable.....they can only hold the politicians accountable that are currently in office. They can spend dollars that they haven't earned and that is unfair advantage that even private business don't have.

But I digress. With "big business" your dollars make them accountable. If you don't like the way that they do business, move on to the next company....simple as that. You have a choice, you have freedom, you have options.....essentially the definition of America.


With government you have "one" choice and when **** goes wrong, who is accountable? How do we make sure that these government run healthcare solutions are bringing in the same amount of money they are putting out? Do they limit care? Do they tell you, that you can only go to the doctor 2 times a year? Do they tell you your uninsurable if you smoke? It's a dicatorship of healthcare. I know that these are all based in fear...but once they have the power.....it's easy for them to maintain the control based in pure sympathy....think social security.

I currently pay $600 a year for healthcare, after switching from my HMO($1800/year) to a high deductible plan...........if the average cost for healthcare is over $11,000/year....how much extra will I pay in taxes?


Honestly, what's wrong with this policy....eliminate insurance.....and pay for what you use.

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Old 01-08-2008, 01:52 PM
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Default Re: Why is big gvt. bad, but big business good? (Superhatch)

Yes, there is a difference. If your losses exceed the premiums you're collecting, then increasing rates makes sense. If you are running at a loss ratio of 8% and you increase the rates just to make more money then not only does it not makes sense but you may be violating some state laws depending on where the company is located.
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Old 01-08-2008, 02:01 PM
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Default Re: Why is big gvt. bad, but big business good? (Jedimiah)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jedimiah &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yes, there is a difference. If your losses exceed the premiums you're collecting, then increasing rates makes sense. If you are running at a loss ratio of 8% and you increase the rates just to make more money then not only does it not makes sense but you may be violating some state laws depending on where the company is located. </TD></TR></TABLE>

People don't quite understand how insurance is regulated by each individual state and how each state has the chance to SET rates.
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Old 01-08-2008, 02:08 PM
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Default Re: Why is big gvt. bad, but big business good? (conesmasher)

I set auto insurance rates for our company and even for a non-standard company there are many issued to deal with.
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Old 01-08-2008, 02:18 PM
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Default Re: Why is big gvt. bad, but big business good? (conesmasher)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by conesmasher &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">But I digress. With "big business" your dollars make them accountable. If you don't like the way that they do business, move on to the next company....simple as that. You have a choice, you have freedom, you have options.....essentially the definition of America.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Or if you dont like how any of them do business you are free to crawl in a hole and die. LOL not much of an option in my opinion.

Big Business and big Government are both bad. Which the current administration supports both.

IMO the health insurance industry has largely harmed the industry. What's bad about the current system is life is sold to the highest bidder. And obviously life is a pretty important thing and pretty damn valuable. I am for some sort of socialized medicine but also privatized insurance. I think there is enough room for both.

Haveing both would force the privatized industry to actually compete and provide better service then the socialized version. Something they ahve never had to do before.
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Old 01-08-2008, 02:31 PM
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Default Re: Why is big gvt. bad, but big business good? (nsxxtreme)

People honestly are getting procedures that they CANNOT afford, period. There is no accountability for the insured for health insurance.....they can rack up procedures because they think they pay their premiums......why not?

Health insurance needs to be rated like car insurance and life insurance.......if you sick, you pay more. If your old, you pay more. If you smoke you pay more. I'm tired of people getting benefits they shouldn't be entitled to. Now I can have sympathy for those who can't control certain things age or disease.....but in all honesty......if you smoke, pay more....etc.
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Old 01-08-2008, 02:32 PM
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Default Re: Why is big gvt. bad, but big business good? (Jedimiah)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jedimiah &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I set auto insurance rates for our company and even for a non-standard company there are many issued to deal with.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I totally understand man, I'm an insurance underwriter.....so you have my sympathy.
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Old 01-08-2008, 02:33 PM
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Default Re: Why is big gvt. bad, but big business good? (nsxxtreme)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nsxxtreme &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Haveing both would force the privatized industry to actually compete and provide better service then the socialized version. Something they ahve never had to do before.
</TD></TR></TABLE>That would be almost impossible, since the government insurance would be subsidized by every tax payer. Just like it would be impossible to undercut subsidized farmers.

Plus, you are then requiring people who choose privatized insurance to pay twice.
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Old 01-08-2008, 05:48 PM
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Default Re: Why is big gvt. bad, but big business good? (conesmasher)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by conesmasher &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I totally understand man, I'm an insurance underwriter.....so you have my sympathy.</TD></TR></TABLE>

your an underwriter..

i was a quoter for an insurance company at my last job. everybody has my sympathy in the insurance business. new business deadlines were INSANE times of the month!
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Old 01-08-2008, 09:26 PM
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Default Re: Why is big gvt. bad, but big business good? (Superhatch)

its not the governments job to do those things.
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Old 01-08-2008, 11:27 PM
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Default Re: Why is big gvt. bad, but big business good? (Superhatch)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Superhatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> A lot of people who are against a gvt. run health care system are okay with a private run system, similar to what we have now.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

This is where your argument fails. We do NOT have a truly private/free market system now....not even close. The U.S. government currently fits the bill for approximately half of all health care expenses. The huge government involvement that we have now spills over into the "private" sector and is the main reason everything is becoming so screwed up to begin with.

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