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Teaching kids to fight?

 
Old 03-14-2019, 08:35 AM
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My wife tried to teach our daughter to fight back if she is being bullied. **** was hilarious because for one, my wife is scared of the smallest insect such as a fly. LOL
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Old 03-14-2019, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by ford9n View Post
I'm not looking for a fight - I'm simply saying the BJJ is all about allowing the smaller person to have a chance against a bigger opponent. that's is why is was invented.
so, I plan to have my kids train BJJ - so they have the tools needed in case they get picked on. BJJ, GJJ specifically teaches kids how to avoid fights, how to walk away, but to also know when that isn't possible. IF walking away isn't possible, the next best thing to do it neutralize the threat without "beating some up" - that is where the chokes and locks come in.
I could post a bunch of videos that show someone with bjj skills, even beginner bjj skills keeping themselves safe, but maybe that's for another thread?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UhsjTkyAZk
I think it sounds great fwiw.
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Old 03-14-2019, 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by ford9n View Post
BJJ, GJJ specifically teaches kids how to avoid fights, how to walk away, but to also know when that isn't possible.
To be fair, this is EVERY martial art. If it isn't being taught where you're sending your kids, remove them.
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Old 03-14-2019, 09:12 AM
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Default Re: Teaching kids to fight?

fair point usdm.
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Old 03-14-2019, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by ford9n View Post
fair point usdm.
Yeah if your child's sensei is coming across like the Cobra Kai guy, you need to pull them out ASAP. That goes against everything martial arts stands for.
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Old 03-14-2019, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by usdm420 View Post
Yeah if your child's sensei is coming across like the Cobra Kai guy, you need to pull them out ASAP. That goes against everything martial arts stands for.
This is a huge fact. Good martial arts teachers are usually rather unassuming and quiet.
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Old 03-14-2019, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by usdm420 View Post
Yeah if your child's sensei is coming across like the Cobra Kai guy, you need to pull them out ASAP. That goes against everything martial arts stands for.
Martial arts were for nobles and the like to be able to crush other nobles and peasants in mass warfare. Cobra Kai students were trained in a no nonsense matter and did full contact sparring so they were used to getting hit. In many ways John Kreese of the Cobra Kai was a fantastic instructor for teaching a martial art which is why his students traditionally dominated the All Valley tournament.

Modern martial arts is filled with 90% BS that came from the more peaceful periods and/or the post modern firearm period which allowed people to get away with all sorts of nonsense and romanticism regarding hand to hand fighting.

I would actually be more inclined to steer clear of an instructor that acts like Mr. Miyagi vs a John Kreese as the Mr. Miyagi guy is more likely to teach your child a bunch of worthless woo-woo martial art BS that will get them annihilated on the street.

This is coming from a guy who did martial arts his whole life and bought into tons of woo-woo BS because I didn't take martial arts just to learn how to fight, but because doing Ninja sh*t is cool and who doesn't want to be a Ninja? The reality though is that there are tons of 60 year old martial arts "masters" out there who are still in their 13 year wanna be Ninja phase so you really have to be careful. And BTW I have nothing against martial arts that aren't about fighting, in fact I love them as long as they are honest about it. Competitive martial arts, doing badass forms, jump kicks, etc is awesome but don't be trying to tell someone that a 540 hook is a viable street fight move.


As for learning to fight I think the number one most important thing is experiencing high intensity sparring. Point fighting, which I loved, is horrendous BS for actual learning how to fight and in some ways will make you a worse fighter. My eyes were really opened once I started sparring with the heavy weight kick boxing champ that partially trained out of our school. I was used as a sparring partner as I could outscore him on points so I was great defensive practice but he could absolutely ANNIHILATE me at will using like 70% of his full power.

Once you get hit by a grown *** man you suddenly start figuring out what works and what doesn't and a huge amount of what you learn in most martial arts can be thrown out the window.

Boxing, wrestling, jujutsu.

Although much harder to find I honestly think more traditional non-sport oriented Japanese jujutsu/Judo or a more standup focused BJJ variant as superior to MMA/Sport BJJ. I'm no expert but IMO a lot of BJJ schools have people wanting to go to the ground way to easy so they can start working their BJJ skills. Great in tournament setting or a low risk basketball court street fight against some school mate but on the street you do not want to be going to the ground if you don't have to. But being an expert at slamming THEM to the ground? An excellent skill to have.

Wrestling is also amazing because it builds incredible toughness and core strength and allows you to go full intensity often without you constantly having to have your brain bashed around (yes I know head injuries happen in wrestling and it is brutal on the rest of your body but people aren't getting knocked out like they are in boxing). And wrestlers have had some of the best success giving nearly everyone hell, both BJJ practitioners and stand up fighters a like, with very little cross training.
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Old 03-14-2019, 11:50 AM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by ActiveAero View Post
Martial arts were for nobles and the like to be able to crush other nobles and peasants in mass warfare. Cobra Kai students were trained in a no nonsense matter and did full contact sparring so they were used to getting hit. In many ways John Kreese of the Cobra Kai was a fantastic instructor for teaching a martial art which is why his students traditionally dominated the All Valley tournament.

Modern martial arts is filled with 90% BS that came from the more peaceful periods and/or the post modern firearm period which allowed people to get away with all sorts of nonsense and romanticism regarding hand to hand fighting.

I would actually be more inclined to steer clear of an instructor that acts like Mr. Miyagi vs a John Kreese as the Mr. Miyagi guy is more likely to teach your child a bunch of worthless woo-woo martial art BS that will get them annihilated on the street.

This is coming from a guy who did martial arts his whole life and bought into tons of woo-woo BS because I didn't take martial arts just to learn how to fight, but because doing Ninja sh*t is cool and who doesn't want to be a Ninja? The reality though is that there are tons of 60 year old martial arts "masters" out there who are still in their 13 year wanna be Ninja phase so you really have to be careful. And BTW I have nothing against martial arts that aren't about fighting, in fact I love them as long as they are honest about it. Competitive martial arts, doing badass forms, jump kicks, etc is awesome but don't be trying to tell someone that a 540 hook is a viable street fight move.

Odd, I've trained under Koreans that don't even speak English and they're complete opposites of the Cobra Kai type...that urges fighting weaker opponents in order to establish alpha dominance. And I trained under them for 17 years. I've also watched one 4th degree Master obliterate 2 **** talking idiots in a Taco bell after one shoved a woman. And one of those kicks was a spinning hook kick to the head.

But sure, whatever you say.

I'll say it again...if your kid's martial arts instructor is some gung ho "kill everybody" douchebag, pull him out asap.

We weren't taught any "woo woo BS" outside of forms, but those are in damn near every traditional martial arts I've taken (Judo, Karate, and TKD). We had plenty of sparring in our dojo that was a lot more than "points based".

More like 3 vs. 1 and let's see how you handle it kind of fighting. Just because tournaments are "woo woo BS" doesn't mean that's all that's getting taught.
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Old 03-14-2019, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by ActiveAero View Post
Martial arts were for nobles and the like to be able to crush other nobles and peasants in mass warfare. Cobra Kai students were trained in a no nonsense matter and did full contact sparring so they were used to getting hit. In many ways John Kreese of the Cobra Kai was a fantastic instructor for teaching a martial art which is why his students traditionally dominated the All Valley tournament.

Modern martial arts is filled with 90% BS that came from the more peaceful periods and/or the post modern firearm period which allowed people to get away with all sorts of nonsense and romanticism regarding hand to hand fighting.

I would actually be more inclined to steer clear of an instructor that acts like Mr. Miyagi vs a John Kreese as the Mr. Miyagi guy is more likely to teach your child a bunch of worthless woo-woo martial art BS that will get them annihilated on the street.

This is coming from a guy who did martial arts his whole life and bought into tons of woo-woo BS because I didn't take martial arts just to learn how to fight, but because doing Ninja sh*t is cool and who doesn't want to be a Ninja? The reality though is that there are tons of 60 year old martial arts "masters" out there who are still in their 13 year wanna be Ninja phase so you really have to be careful. And BTW I have nothing against martial arts that aren't about fighting, in fact I love them as long as they are honest about it. Competitive martial arts, doing badass forms, jump kicks, etc is awesome but don't be trying to tell someone that a 540 hook is a viable street fight move.


As for learning to fight I think the number one most important thing is experiencing high intensity sparring. Point fighting, which I loved, is horrendous BS for actual learning how to fight and in some ways will make you a worse fighter. My eyes were really opened once I started sparring with the heavy weight kick boxing champ that partially trained out of our school. I was used as a sparring partner as I could outscore him on points so I was great defensive practice but he could absolutely ANNIHILATE me at will using like 70% of his full power.

Once you get hit by a grown *** man you suddenly start figuring out what works and what doesn't and a huge amount of what you learn in most martial arts can be thrown out the window.

Boxing, wrestling, jujutsu.

Although much harder to find I honestly think more traditional non-sport oriented Japanese jujutsu/Judo or a more standup focused BJJ variant as superior to MMA/Sport BJJ. I'm no expert but IMO a lot of BJJ schools have people wanting to go to the ground way to easy so they can start working their BJJ skills. Great in tournament setting or a low risk basketball court street fight against some school mate but on the street you do not want to be going to the ground if you don't have to. But being an expert at slamming THEM to the ground? An excellent skill to have.

Wrestling is also amazing because it builds incredible toughness and core strength and allows you to go full intensity often without you constantly having to have your brain bashed around (yes I know head injuries happen in wrestling and it is brutal on the rest of your body but people aren't getting knocked out like they are in boxing). And wrestlers have had some of the best success giving nearly everyone hell, both BJJ practitioners and stand up fighters a like, with very little cross training.
Cliffs:


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Old 03-14-2019, 11:53 AM
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FYI...Mr Miyagi's student wins every time....sooo even though you're completely over analyzing a movie from the 80's, "your guy" loses. Repeatedly.
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Old 03-14-2019, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by ActiveAero View Post
Great in tournament setting or a low risk basketball court street fight against some school mate but on the street you do not want to be going to the ground if you don't have to.
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Old 03-14-2019, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by 816d16 View Post
I wouldn't dare suggest going that route in ANY street setting. His boys will stomp you out in no time flat.
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Old 03-14-2019, 12:06 PM
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Hmm interdasting about the BJJ. I've been thinking about picking up a martial art since I have a little more free time in my schedule and have MAD ENERGY all the time and have been thinking of getting into a martial art to help me manage all that extra ******* ENERGY I have

Actually srs.

Edit: Recommend me a martial art srs. So far I've thought about Krav and BJJ
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Old 03-14-2019, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by usdm420 View Post
I wouldn't dare suggest going that route in ANY street setting. His boys will stomp you out in no time flat.
Fair enough.

Any 1v1 situation most likely ends like we just saw though, striker guy off to the spirit world.
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Old 03-14-2019, 12:08 PM
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The issue is...these days it's hardly ever 1v1
By 15 years old my Master was sticking me in rings with 3 adults, and having us go 2 minute intervals full contact 3v1. It's eye opening.

Taught me a lot though about keeping targets in front of me at all times, using their bodies against their buddies in terms of maneuvering, striking to disable as quickly as possible, etc.
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Old 03-14-2019, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by tron_ View Post
Hmm interdasting about the BJJ. I've been thinking about picking up a martial art since I have a little more free time in my schedule and have MAD ENERGY all the time and have been thinking of getting into a martial art to help me manage all that extra ******* ENERGY I have

Actually srs.

I have 3 buddies that are super into it. It has changed them for the better as people as well.

Try it
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Old 03-14-2019, 12:22 PM
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Default Re: Teaching kids to fight?

Originally Posted by tron_ View Post
Hmm interdasting about the BJJ. I've been thinking about picking up a martial art since I have a little more free time in my schedule and have MAD ENERGY all the time and have been thinking of getting into a martial art to help me manage all that extra ******* ENERGY I have

Actually srs.

Edit: Recommend me a martial art srs. So far I've thought about Krav and BJJ
i looked at the same two you mention. I ultimately went with BJJ because at its roots, irs purely defensive, where krav includes striking. I also plan to have my kids follow and I don't really want them striking at a young age.
fwiw - the krav guys/girls train a fair amount of bjj as a compliment to krav (if that tells you anything)
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Old 03-14-2019, 01:21 PM
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Both my girls grew up knowing how to throw a punch properly. Sucks now though when they sneak up on ya
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Old 03-14-2019, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by tron_ View Post
Cliffs:

Yes, that's pretty much most martial arts instructors.
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Old 03-14-2019, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by usdm420 View Post
FYI...Mr Miyagi's student wins every time....sooo even though you're completely over analyzing a movie from the 80's, "your guy" loses. Repeatedly.
I think you're the one over analyzing it lol. Of course your kid shouldn't train with a guy who is the literal embodiment of the movie villain John Kreese lol but John Kreese's methods as a teacher, outside of the hyper exaggerated villain stuff, is far more effective in the real world than Mr. Miyagi's paint the fence crane kick BS. And I love Mr. Miyagi btw.





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Old 03-14-2019, 02:02 PM
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Old 03-14-2019, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by usdm420 View Post
The issue is...these days it's hardly ever 1v1
By 15 years old my Master was sticking me in rings with 3 adults, and having us go 2 minute intervals full contact 3v1. It's eye opening.

Taught me a lot though about keeping targets in front of me at all times, using their bodies against their buddies in terms of maneuvering, striking to disable as quickly as possible, etc.
Had to do 1 minute with 1, second minute with 2, etc all the way up to a 5 on one for the last minute. It was good cardio but little else.

What you learn is that you won't survive without running and just how best to protect yourself during a pummeling. It's better than nothing I suppose but it's still not close to real as even doing it full contact isn't actual full contact and people are never attacking full out simultaneously as no one wants to wreck their instructor and embarrass him.

Now of course people argue about how no they can do it, but they end up just destroying their own art. If the guys you are fighting against are good enough to take one 5 guys and you have 5 of those guys taking on just one guy there is no logical way that the fight, if truly real, should last more than about 5 seconds.

It also again has the problem of creating bad habits due to it not actually being real in terms of how people react, even if done full contact.
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Old 03-14-2019, 03:50 PM
  #73  
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HURR DURR THE BEST FIGHTERS ARE LOUD CHEST BEATERS /Activeaero

my sons TKD instructor, 8th degree black belt. EIGHTH. Never heard him raise his voice above a calm tone. Currently had 5 national champions under him, 3 of which are his kids




Loud people are compensating for something.
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Old 03-14-2019, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by 816d16 View Post
Any 1v1 situation most likely ends like we just saw though, striker guy off to the spirit world.




anytime i see vids of people fighting on asphalt/concrete you’re one fall or slam away from death.
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Old 03-14-2019, 04:45 PM
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I love this even though it's as old as the internet
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