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Our political differences.

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Old 01-11-2018, 09:43 AM
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Default Our political differences.

I believe I finally realized the major difference between the two sides here and I won't even call us liberal vs. conservative because it's not that clear cut.

The major difference between the major contributors here are you either want everyone to be accountable for everything even to the detriment of those who deserve the benefit of the doubt versus those that do not think the good people of this world should be held hostage because a few people can't get their **** together. Boom.

Apply it to any argument we have here, it works. And the really amusing part is that we often switch sides depending on the issue.

Gun control, abortion, terrorism/Muslims...... try it.
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Old 01-11-2018, 09:46 AM
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Old 01-11-2018, 09:46 AM
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Default Re: Our political differences.

Have you watched Sarah Silverman's I Love You, America?
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Old 01-11-2018, 09:48 AM
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Default Re: Our political differences.

No, did I steal her bit?
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Old 01-11-2018, 09:49 AM
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Default Re: Our political differences.

Originally Posted by Knightsport View Post
No, did I steal her bit?
No, it just kind of sort of attacks the subject. Great watch.
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Old 01-11-2018, 09:49 AM
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Default Re: Our political differences.

I don't totally get the exact premise/point you are trying to make, but would like to. Can you please explain your point or at least give me an example?
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Old 01-11-2018, 09:52 AM
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Default Re: Our political differences.

Originally Posted by 93Accord117 View Post
I don't totally get the exact premise/point you are trying to make, but would like to. Can you please explain your point or at least give me an example?
Cliffs: one bad apple either does, or doesnt ruin the bunch, depending on your political views

Example: "Don't infringe on muh 2A because one in a million shoots up a school, but we do need to ban all mushlimbs from migrating because one in a million blows up a mosque"
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Old 01-11-2018, 09:53 AM
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Default Re: Our political differences.

Originally Posted by 93Accord117 View Post
I don't totally get the exact premise/point you are trying to make, but would like to. Can you please explain your point or at least give me an example?
accountability for cops
accountability for welfare recipients
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Old 01-11-2018, 09:54 AM
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Default Re: Our political differences.

Example 1: Welfare system. The right generally hates it because a few of its benefactors can be seen to be living high on the hog while not working while the left more or less rightly believes that this is only a small minority of the systems benefactors therefor it should stay to the benefit of the masses.

(Example of the flop in sides)

Gun control: The left generally wants guns tightly controlled and regulated because a few people have abused the availability of guns and the right to own them while the right does not believe that the majority of decent gun owners should be burdened because a few idiots have their cheese slide off their cracker.
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Old 01-11-2018, 09:57 AM
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Default Re: Our political differences.

Honestly, isn't everyone a hypocrite depending on the issue? There are countless examples of this.
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Old 01-11-2018, 09:59 AM
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Default Re: Our political differences.

Ahh I see, thanks! That does seem like a fair assessment. Sometimes I feel like I have to drag stupid issues to their logical end points in order to show the absurdity of certain people's positions.

Yesterday was a spicy day of discussions.
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Old 01-11-2018, 10:01 AM
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Default Re: Our political differences.

Originally Posted by BeeResp0nsible View Post
Honestly, isn't everyone a hypocrite depending on the issue? There are countless examples of this.
That's my point. We aren't very different.

We apply similar standards to our issues depending on our leanings but we have basically the same philosophical view.
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Old 01-11-2018, 10:03 AM
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Default Re: Our political differences.

Originally Posted by Knightsport View Post
That's my point. We aren't very different.

We apply similar standards to our issues depending on our leanings but we have basically the same philosophical view.
For sure. I don't think people are too drastically different in how they rationalize or think about things, but values shift from person to person and that is where the differences lie.
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Old 01-11-2018, 10:03 AM
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Default Re: Our political differences.

Originally Posted by Knightsport View Post
Example 1: Welfare system. The right generally hates it because a few of its benefactors can be seen to be living high on the hog while not working while the left more or less rightly believes that this is only a small minority of the systems benefactors therefor it should stay to the benefit of the masses.

(Example of the flop in sides)

Gun control: The left generally wants guns tightly controlled and regulated because a few people have abused the availability of guns and the right to own them while the right does not believe that the majority of decent gun owners should be burdened because a few idiots have their cheese slide off their cracker.
Yes...But welfare doesn't kill people. If you abuse welfare, people don't just drop dead at a concert or a nightclub.

I think you are mostly right here, but I've been waiting for a reason to post this so here you go. By the numbers, one issue can be said to divide the country, it's this one:

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...minism/548423/

Originally Posted by The Atlantic
At my request, researchers from the Schar School broke down the answers by party and gender. The results: Party mattered far more. Republican women in Alabama were only four points more likely than Republican men to believe Moore’s accusers. In fact, Republican women were 40 points less likely to believe Moore’s accusers than were Democratic men. All of which points to a truth insufficiently appreciated in this moment of sexual and political upheaval: It’s not gender that increasingly divides the two parties. It is feminism.

This September, Leonie Huddy and Johanna Willmann of Stony Brook University presented a paper at the American Political Science Association. (The paper is not yet published, but Huddy sent me a copy.) In it, they charted the effects of feminism on partisanship over time. Holding other factors constant, they found that between 2004 and 2016, support for feminism—belief in the existence of “societal discrimination against women, and the need for greater female political power”—grew increasingly correlated with support for the Democratic Party.

The correlation rose earlier among feminist women, but by 2016, it had also risen among feminist men. A key factor, the authors speculated, was Hillary Clinton. A liberal woman’s emergence as a serious presidential contender in 2008, and then as her party’s nominee eight years later, drove feminists of both genders toward the Democratic Party and anti-feminists of both genders toward the GOP.
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Old 01-11-2018, 10:05 AM
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Default Re: Our political differences.

Originally Posted by Uncle Ben's View Post
Cliffs: one bad apple either does, or doesnt ruin the bunch, depending on your political views

Example: "Don't infringe on muh 2A because one in a million shoots up a school, but we do need to ban all mushlimbs from migrating because one in a million blows up a mosque"
Nailed it
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Old 01-11-2018, 10:06 AM
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Default Re: Our political differences.

As long as we live in a binary society, this will always be an issue. The only fix is to not think in absolutes and we're moving away from that rather than towards it.
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Old 01-11-2018, 10:14 AM
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Default Re: Our political differences.

Originally Posted by Uncle Ben's View Post
Cliffs: one bad apple either does, or doesnt ruin the bunch, depending on your political views

Example: "Don't infringe on muh 2A because one in a million shoots up a school, but we do need to ban all mushlimbs from migrating because one in a million blows up a mosque"
And most of those migrants are a direct result of Western interventionist policy

I think most people (us) are reasonable and could sit down and come up with a system of governance that everyone would agree is fair.
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Old 01-11-2018, 10:16 AM
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Default Re: Our political differences.

Originally Posted by Ross View Post
Yes...But welfare doesn't kill people. If you abuse welfare, people don't just drop dead at a concert or a nightclub.

I think you are mostly right here, but I've been waiting for a reason to post this so here you go. By the numbers, one issue can be said to divide the country, it's this one:

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...minism/548423/
Interesting. I don't know that I give feminism much thought to be honest. I've realized over my years of marriage that I am slo not the same as other husbands. I view our marriage as a pure partnership in which we share everything equally. We don't really have the old gender rols that still seem to be prevalent all around us.

Originally Posted by newt2 View Post
As long as we live in a binary society, this will always be an issue. The only fix is to not think in absolutes and we're moving away from that rather than towards it.
Only a Sith deals in absolutes.

(Sorry, had to)
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Old 01-11-2018, 10:19 AM
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Default Re: Our political differences.

Originally Posted by Knightsport View Post
Interesting. I don't know that I give feminism much thought to be honest. I've realized over my years of marriage that I am slo not the same as other husbands. I view our marriage as a pure partnership in which we share everything equally. We don't really have the old gender rols that still seem to be prevalent all around us.
I think people just treat relationships entirely the wrong way. Both genders have strengths and weaknesses (and individuals obviously) but people should compliment each other based on that and not on what feminists or social engineers think they should do.
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Old 01-11-2018, 10:38 AM
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Default Re: Our political differences.

I do wonder how well certain members would get along in person instead of over the internet as well. The sad part is that I do share some of the same opinions as some who hate me here; I suspect others are in a similar position too. I general, I feel like there is probably more common ground than on quite a few topics than there appears to be.
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Old 01-11-2018, 10:44 AM
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Default Re: Our political differences.

Id say at this point, its just like the Hatfields vs the McCoys. Both sides hate each other because the other side is the other side. Id say that both sides want the same thing, they just want it to be their side who is running the show and they hate everything the other side does, without really understanding why.
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Old 01-11-2018, 10:47 AM
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Default Re: Our political differences.

Originally Posted by Bakemono36 View Post
Id say at this point, its just like the Hatfields vs the McCoys. Both sides hate each other because the other side is the other side. Id say that both sides want the same thing, they just want it to be their side who is running the show and they hate everything the other side does, without really understanding why.
Also an excellent comparison, definitely some #teamsports going on.
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Old 01-11-2018, 10:49 AM
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Default Re: Our political differences.

Originally Posted by Bakemono36 View Post
Id say at this point, its just like the Hatfields vs the McCoys. Both sides hate each other because the other side is the other side. Id say that both sides want the same thing, they just want it to be their side who is running the show and they hate everything the other side does, without really understanding why.
I think there are inklings of this but the real similarities between both sides are not in where they are headed, but how they get there. They use the same tactics, but the issues and values they hold are completely different.
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Old 01-11-2018, 10:58 AM
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Default Re: Our political differences.

Originally Posted by 93Accord117 View Post
I do wonder how well certain members would get along in person instead of over the internet as well. The sad part is that I do share some of the same opinions as some who hate me here; I suspect others are in a similar position too. I general, I feel like there is probably more common ground than on quite a few topics than there appears to be.
**** yes there is.

We all have way more things and societal wants in common than things we disagree on. Social media, the media, et al have allowed us just to run wild with the ferocity of our opinions though. It's hard not to fall into that trap, very hard.

Check out the first couple episode of Sarah Silverman's I Love You, America. It kind of loses direction after that, but the first two episodes really hit at what you and I are talking about. and *cinnamon toast crunch*
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Old 01-11-2018, 11:08 AM
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Default Re: Our political differences.

Originally Posted by newt2 View Post
As long as we live in a binary society, this will always be an issue. The only fix is to not think in absolutes and we're moving away from that rather than towards it.
This.

It's the reason I empathize with but don't see myself being part of either group.

My philosophy tends to.. do whatever floats your boat as long as it doesn't harm anyone else, leave me(and my money) to do the same, stop intervening in foreign affairs, and always chase efficiency, both in markets and services tendered.

My issue with welfare isn't the anecdotal cases of abuse by a minority of people, rather it's the inefficiencies that come with bureaucracy and 'admin' costs. A perfect example being the school board giving themselves raises as opposed to the teachers. This wouldn't happen in a market based educational economy. Most things are handled best by the market, from education to charity. I see free markets(not cronyism) as the ideal solution for rational bleeding hearts. The necessary evil that is 'the state' should be as decentralized and as close to the governed as possible.
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