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Norte Dame is burning down

 
Old 04-15-2019, 10:56 AM
  #26  
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Default Re: Norte Dame is burning down

Originally Posted by Pinja View Post
lol @ defending an institution that not only believes in some make-believe man in the sky but also tries to cover up evil things under the guise of "religion"



:ded:





this

I went to Catholic school. It all stems down from the top. So many parents paid off under the table for things that happened just so they could keep their reputation of being a good school (instances of racism from teachers, Youth Minister was a diddler, etc)

but hey peace on Earth, Jesus and all that stuff
Well leave the religious part out. So you feel that the systemic abuse cover up discredits the organization as a whole and makes it bad? Does that implicate all the workers as well?
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Old 04-15-2019, 11:00 AM
  #27  
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Default Re: Norte Dame is burning down

Originally Posted by 020 View Post
In all seriousness I don’t think you can blanket condemn an entire organization that also does lots of good based.
Originally Posted by 020 View Post
Well leave the religious part out. So you feel that the systemic abuse cover up discredits the organization as a whole and makes it bad? Does that implicate all the workers as well?
Can we not go down one of your rabbit holes of selective distinction, at least until the fire is out? Jeez dude.

Originally Posted by silvertaxasteg View Post
Not sure if it's ironic or just coincidental - this just before Easter.
I will not be shocked if we learn it was set intentionally.
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Old 04-15-2019, 11:07 AM
  #28  
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Default Re: Norte Dame is burning down

Originally Posted by 020 View Post
Well leave the religious part out. So you feel that the systemic abuse cover up discredits the organization as a whole and makes it bad? Does that implicate all the workers as well?
My guy, this is different than whatever form of “whataboutism” you are about to apply when/if he answers “yes”. The bad deeds and sexual abuse of this organization has been felt by so Americans (and people across the globe), directly and indirectly. Almost everybody has been touched by it some way or another. People have strong feelings on the matter. This organization sat passively by when Hitler was gassing people and they have a sick and well documented past when it comes to sexual abuse of children, that they have done next to nothing to correct. The leaders sit essentially encased in marble, granite, gold, and stone and want my money as well.

No need to “just asking questions” everybody that has a negative opinion on the Catholic Church. It’s pretty obvious why many have a negative opinion.
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Old 04-15-2019, 11:08 AM
  #29  
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Default Re: Norte Dame is burning down

Originally Posted by 020 View Post
Well leave the religious part out. So you feel that the systemic abuse cover up discredits the organization as a whole and makes it bad? Does that implicate all the workers as well?
I mean why are you trying to change the subject at hand or rather change the circumstances? Is it because you don't have a valid argument otherwise?



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Old 04-15-2019, 11:11 AM
  #30  
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Default Re: Norte Dame is burning down

Originally Posted by 816d16 View Post
My guy, this is different than whatever form of “whataboutism” you are about to apply when/if he answers “yes”. The bad deeds and sexual abuse of this organization has been felt by so Americans (and people across the globe), directly and indirectly. Almost everybody has been touched by it some way or another. People have strong feelings on the matter. This organization sat passively by when Hitler was gassing people and they have a sick and well documented past when it comes to sexual abuse of children, that they have done next to nothing to correct. The leaders sit essentially encased in marble, granite, gold, and stone and want my money as well.

No need to “just asking questions” everybody that has a negative opinion on the Catholic Church. It’s pretty obvious why many have a negative opinion.
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Old 04-15-2019, 11:11 AM
  #31  
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Default Re: Norte Dame is burning down

Originally Posted by Ross View Post
I will not be shocked if we learn it was set intentionally.
Would not be surprised either.
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Old 04-15-2019, 11:11 AM
  #32  
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Default Re: Norte Dame is burning down

Originally Posted by Ross View Post
Can we not go down one of your rabbit holes of selective distinction, at least until the fire is out? Jeez dude.


Originally Posted by Ross View Post
I will not be shocked if we learn it was set intentionally.
Yeah, half of me is expecting that.
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Old 04-15-2019, 11:12 AM
  #33  
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Default Re: Norte Dame is burning down

Originally Posted by Tim2179 View Post
Would not be surprised either.
x2, it’s Passover or something important right? Betting intentional which is real sad whether you believe in their Flying Spaghetti Monster or a different one. Luckily they have endless money to fix it.
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Old 04-15-2019, 11:33 AM
  #34  
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Default Re: Norte Dame is burning down

Thats sad.
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Old 04-15-2019, 11:41 AM
  #35  
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Default Re: Norte Dame is burning down

Didn't know ND housed a lot of important relics.
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Old 04-15-2019, 11:45 AM
  #36  
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Default Re: Norte Dame is burning down

Originally Posted by .Grimace View Post
x2, it’s Passover or something important right? Betting intentional which is real sad whether you believe in their Flying Spaghetti Monster or a different one. Luckily they have endless money to fix it.
Yo, no disrespect to your enlightened godless materialism, but maybe you should sit this one out until you can show just a wee bit of respect.

Originally Posted by silvertaxasteg View Post

Yeah, half of me is expecting that.
Originally Posted by Tim2179 View Post
Would not be surprised either.
Obviously we could all go right to Allahu Akbar.

But there's something weird going on in the Catholic Church and my "Spidey-Sense" (AKA my tendency to jump to conclusions, AKA Rossing) is tingling quite a bit.

Did anyone catch the rebuke of the current Pope, by the last one?

Last week Pope Benedict, AKA the artist formerly known as Hitler Youth Joseph Ratzinger, wrote an essay blaming the Catholic sex abuse scandal on...1960s liberalism and the sexual revolution.

This is just as Pope Francis is pushing the church towards a more liberal stance, and has become a target for everyone from hardliners like Benedict to populist snake-oil salesman Steve Bannon.

https://www.esquire.com/news-politic...ncis-populism/

So...I also wouldn't be surprised to learn that it was some crazy reactionary Catholics, outraged at the church's [outward] turn towards liberalism and tolerance.

Something weird is brewing. Dragging a former pope out of retirement to criticize a new one is a major breach of Catholic etiquette. Ratzinger/Benedict is 91...he didn't act alone here.
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Old 04-15-2019, 12:05 PM
  #37  
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Default Re: Norte Dame is burning down

Very interesting take.

I claim ignorance on the goings-on in Catholicism - Protestant, here.

It's been a long time coming - in-fighting may be coming to a head. Could easily be a group disgruntled by the Catholic Church handling the abuse scandals. It's like "Clue". All the players have motive, opportunity, and a weapon.

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Old 04-15-2019, 12:07 PM
  #38  
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Default Re: Norte Dame is burning down

Ima say started by candle
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Old 04-15-2019, 12:14 PM
  #39  
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Default Re: Norte Dame is burning down

Originally Posted by DREWdabuilder View Post
Ima say started by candle
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Old 04-15-2019, 12:15 PM
  #40  
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Default Re: Norte Dame is burning down

Originally Posted by DREWdabuilder View Post
Ima say started by candle
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Old 04-15-2019, 12:20 PM
  #41  
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Default Re: Norte Dame is burning down

Originally Posted by 816d16 View Post
My guy, this is different than whatever form of “whataboutism” you are about to apply when/if he answers “yes”. The bad deeds and sexual abuse of this organization has been felt by so Americans (and people across the globe), directly and indirectly. Almost everybody has been touched by it some way or another. People have strong feelings on the matter. This organization sat passively by when Hitler was gassing people and they have a sick and well documented past when it comes to sexual abuse of children, that they have done next to nothing to correct. The leaders sit essentially encased in marble, granite, gold, and stone and want my money as well.

No need to “just asking questions” everybody that has a negative opinion on the Catholic Church. It’s pretty obvious why many have a negative opinion.
Originally Posted by Ross View Post
Can we not go down one of your rabbit holes of selective distinction, at least until the fire is out? Jeez dude.



I will not be shocked if we learn it was set intentionally.
Ross yeah, you a place is burning down and people are celebrating but I’m the issue. Also you can’t keep misusing the phrase “selective distinction”. I don’t know if you just stumbled upon it or what but you are quite lost.

816d16 ”Blahblabblah you can’t question” gotcha. Solid. Since I’m replying to a specific poster and you are upset, don’t reply to me.

Pinja I’m not changing anything. I asked you a specific question about your feelings. I think the Catholic Church sucks but they do some good.
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Old 04-15-2019, 12:23 PM
  #42  
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Default Re: Norte Dame is burning down

Originally Posted by 020 View Post
Ross yeah, you a place is burning down and people are celebrating but I’m the issue. Also you can’t keep misusing the phrase “selective distinction”. I don’t know if you just stumbled upon it or what but you are quite lost.

816d16 ”Blahblabblah you can’t question” gotcha. Solid. Since I’m replying to a specific poster and you are upset, don’t reply to me.

Pinja I’m not changing anything. I asked you a specific question about your feelings. I think the Catholic Church sucks but they do some good.
I don't think it's right to celebrate it either, but I can't defend the Church on that one.
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Old 04-15-2019, 12:39 PM
  #43  
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Default Re: Norte Dame is burning down

Originally Posted by Ross View Post
I don't think it's right to celebrate it either, but I can't defend the Church on that one.
Im not defending the Churches terrible handling of that situation. I would like to know how someone can celebrate a historic building burning, one that may have casualties, on the basis of that incident. So I asked directly what Pinjas thoughts on the people who work for the church and such are. As much as it sucks the Catholic Church does do some good.
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Old 04-15-2019, 12:51 PM
  #44  
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Default Re: Norte Dame is burning down

Originally Posted by 020 View Post

816d16 ”Blahblabblah you can’t question” gotcha. Solid. Since I’m replying to a specific poster and you are upset, don’t reply to me.
Lol, I'm not upset at all. You can question all you want. My comment was basically a long drawn out "We get it, you're the intellectual Devil's Advocate of the board. Many people's lives have been impacted negatively by the catholic church in one way or the other. How are you not seeing this?" post.

Where is this celebrating you keep citing? Pinja just "x2" me saying I don't feel any particular type of way other than, meh what goes around comes around.
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Old 04-15-2019, 12:54 PM
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Default Re: Norte Dame is burning down



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Old 04-15-2019, 12:57 PM
  #46  
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Default Re: Norte Dame is burning down

Originally Posted by 020 View Post
Im not defending the Churches terrible handling of that situation. I would like to know how someone can celebrate a historic building burning, one that may have casualties, on the basis of that incident. So I asked directly what Pinjas thoughts on the people who work for the church and such are.
I'm not sure they are celebrating it as much as they are finding themselves incapable of shedding any tears.

Originally Posted by 020
As much as it sucks the Catholic Church does do some good.
Now you know how I feel when you trash Nancy Pelosi for being as corrupt as Trump, over one questionable deal made by her brother-in-law. Throwing the baby out with the bathwater seems logical when you dislike the baby in the first place.
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Old 04-15-2019, 01:04 PM
  #47  
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Default Re: Norte Dame is burning down

Originally Posted by Ross View Post
I'm not sure they are celebrating it as much as they are finding themselves incapable of shedding any tears.
This

No sane person is celebrating the death of any maintenance crew workers, any non-kid diddler, et al.
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Old 04-15-2019, 01:20 PM
  #48  
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Default Re: Norte Dame is burning down

Norte Dame? I bet the Surenos are happy that a Norte's Dame is on fire.

In other news.... Notre Dame is also in fire.
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Old 04-15-2019, 01:23 PM
  #49  
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Default Re: Norte Dame is burning down

Originally Posted by Ross View Post
I will not be shocked if we learn it was set intentionally.
Originally Posted by silvertaxasteg View Post
Yeah, half of me is expecting that.
Notre Dame had been undergoing a lot of reconstruction work, including in the roof where the fire seems to have started. I think it's more logical to believe that it was an accident, although if somebody wanted to get into the roof in the dead of night, the scaffolding certainly makes it easy.

But...I don't think so. My vote is accident.

Originally Posted by .Grimace View Post
x2, it’s Passover or something important right?
Passover is 4/19 - 4/27, which is why Orthodox Christians do not have Easter until next week. :-) It's a longstanding argument that nobody's ever going to fix.

Originally Posted by Setsuna F Seiei View Post
Didn't know ND housed a lot of important relics.
Most of which were looted out of Constantinople during the 4th Crusade.

Originally Posted by Ross View Post
So...I also wouldn't be surprised to learn that it was some crazy reactionary Catholics, outraged at the church's [outward] turn towards liberalism and tolerance.
I cannot imagine that even the most ardent Rosicrucian would get involved with burning down a church that began to be built in the 1100's. It's a sign of the order that they want to preserve, not a symbol of the new.

These people you're talking about don't amount to much, Ross. The first powerful person who set out against them was Henry II. But that was just the start of it. Henry VIII, Elizabeth II, Masons, the Orangists, nationalist organizations like the Tannenbergbund, and you've got major dynasties from whose ranks they're permanently barred (including the important part of the Windsor dynasty).

The Catholic Church might be seen as a huge conspiratorial evil by somebody of your background, but in truth I really just do not see that they have much power outside their own ranks.

You've got weird stuff here and there, like the King of the Belgians having to declare himself unfit for 24 hours so his country could pass an abortion law without his consent.

But, for the most part, I think you give them too much credit.
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Old 04-15-2019, 01:27 PM
  #50  
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Default Re: Norte Dame is burning down

Pope Benedict...I don't know what to say about that. The idea of a Pontiff Emeritus is totally new, and they're defining the position as they go along.

This last tome of his about the 60's revolution was just weird.
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