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Nerd Alert: Valve Index.

 
Old 05-07-2019, 09:56 AM
  #1  
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Default Nerd Alert: Valve Index.

After developing a lot of the tech and initially partnering with HTC for them to make the original Vive headset Valve has decided to make their own VR headset and controller system in house.

Some of the highlights:

1. Dual 1440x1600 144HZ LCD's (one per eye) but possibly the most impressive feature is that the panels only have 0.3ms of persistence which would make them the smoothest/lowest motion blur panels ever. We're talking dramatically faster than even the best 240Hz low persistence gaming monitors and even CRTs.




2. Some weird ear monitors, not really pure headphones but more like small speakers that just float near your ear. Initial reports are talking about some top notch sound quality and bass.

3. Wider FOV than the previous gen headsets and some new fancy dual lens design for better optics/clarity.

4. Index controllers which track all 5 fingers plus pressure in addition to using a unique strap design which allows you to let go of the controllers without dropping them.







Should be neat to play around with. VR fan or not VR is really pushing new display/imaging/rendering/tracking tech that can filter down to lots of other things.
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Old 05-07-2019, 09:59 AM
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Default Re: Nerd Alert: Valve Index.

What games though
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Old 05-07-2019, 10:00 AM
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Default Re: Nerd Alert: Valve Index.

pornhub
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Old 05-07-2019, 10:00 AM
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Default Re: Nerd Alert: Valve Index.

Cliffs?
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Old 05-07-2019, 10:03 AM
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Default Re: Nerd Alert: Valve Index.

Fyi- motion blur and lag is what makes people sick from wearing VR headsets for too long. It’s basically the most important stat.

We’re almost there.
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Old 05-07-2019, 10:07 AM
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Default Re: Nerd Alert: Valve Index.

Originally Posted by Rguy View Post
What games though
Valve will be making an announcement in a few months but based on leaks it seems pretty much confirmed it is the next Half Life.
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Old 05-07-2019, 10:13 AM
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Default Re: Nerd Alert: Valve Index.

I would ease up on the headset use until you get use to it, if you jump into it and start playing like you do with a monitor that would be when the sickness kicks in.
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Old 05-07-2019, 10:45 AM
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Default Re: Nerd Alert: Valve Index.

Originally Posted by xtrac1 View Post
Cliffs?
Most people think smoothness is all about the monitor's refresh rate/fps when in reality persistence is a massive factor.

If I understand it correctly traditional monitors are known as full persistence which means the image is displayed and lit up for the entire frame. So for a 60Hz monitor with something moving across the scene each image is fully lit up for 16.6ms. Then the next update occurs and the object is jumped ahead to the next set of pixels were it again stays frozen for the entire 16.6ms before the next update. This is bad if it is supposed to be moving because our brain sees it in the same spot for the entire 16.6ms (1/60th of a second) until the next update.

In simple terms for motion it is actually better if our brain sees nothing until the next visual update because that's how reality is. As something moves across our vision it doesn't continue to exist in one spot for 1/60th of a second. It is there and gone.

What this means, using the 60hz monitor example, is that even though the monitor updates every 16.6ms it is actually ideal for any image in motion to only exist within that frame for as short a time as possible. You will get much smoother images with a 60hz panel that only shows the image for a single ms of the 16.6ms it is on that frame.

These new Index displays are the best of both worlds. They can run at high refresh rates while having ridiculously low persistence. They have the same persistence that would require a 3000hz refresh rate (yes three thousand, not three hundred) out of a typical LCD monitor and they have about 1/3rd the persistence of the absolute highest end 240hz low persistence gaming monitors.
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Old 05-07-2019, 10:56 AM
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Default Re: Nerd Alert: Valve Index.

Amazing. It would be something you'd have to experience 1st hand to appreciate I bet. I have not played with VR headsets.
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Old 05-07-2019, 10:58 AM
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Default Re: Nerd Alert: Valve Index.

Originally Posted by ActiveAero View Post
Most people think smoothness is all about the monitor's refresh rate/fps when in reality persistence is a massive factor.

If I understand it correctly traditional monitors are known as full persistence which means the image is displayed and lit up for the entire frame. So for a 60Hz monitor with something moving across the scene each image is fully lit up for 16.6ms. Then the next update occurs and the object is jumped ahead to the next set of pixels were it again stays frozen for the entire 16.6ms before the next update. This is bad if it is supposed to be moving because our brain sees it in the same spot for the entire 16.6ms (1/60th of a second) until the next update.

In simple terms for motion it is actually better if our brain sees nothing until the next visual update because that's how reality is. As something moves across our vision it doesn't continue to exist in one spot for 1/60th of a second. It is there and gone.

What this means, using the 60hz monitor example, is that even though the monitor updates every 16.6ms it is actually ideal for any image in motion to only exist within that frame for as short a time as possible. You will get much smoother images with a 60hz panel that only shows the image for a single ms of the 16.6ms it is on that frame.

These new Index displays are the best of both worlds. They can run at high refresh rates while having ridiculously low persistence. They have the same persistence that would require a 3000hz refresh rate (yes three thousand, not three hundred) out of a typical LCD monitor and they have about 1/3rd the persistence of the absolute highest end 240hz low persistence gaming monitors.
Cliffs?
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Old 05-07-2019, 11:43 AM
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Default Re: Nerd Alert: Valve Index.

Originally Posted by xtrac1 View Post
Cliffs?
Displays should be next level in terms of lack of motion blur. Controllers have finger tracking which is neat.
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Old 05-07-2019, 12:00 PM
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Default Re: Nerd Alert: Valve Index.

You'll probably need a 10k PC to run this at max fps/hz for any demanding games
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Old 05-07-2019, 01:05 PM
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Default Re: Nerd Alert: Valve Index.

Originally Posted by Tennobanzai View Post
You'll probably need a 10k PC to run this at max fps/hz for any demanding games
Valve's recommended requirements are a 1070 GPU, minimum requirements are a GTX 970.

VR games are already developed with high FPS in mind as it is essentially a mandatory requirement to eliminate motion sickness. 72hz is about the minimum for action games to make sure most people don't get sick.

Oculus and Valve both have some other tricks in the forms of Asynchronous Spacewarp and Asynchronous Timewarp. In simple not totally correct terms: The system takes the last rendered frame and the headset's current position and then can warp the last frame to a best guest of what it thinks a new frame should look like without actually needing the GPU to render it. It effectively cuts GPU rendering requirements in half. The Oculus version is currently black magic it's so good and it will only be a matter of time before all headsets have something similar.

This is actually one of the cool things about VR. It is pushing the development of all sorts of new technology geared towards figuring out how to handle what would traditionally require insane GPU/CPU power. The next big step will be eye tracking and foveated rendering.

But yeah to run a current AAA title not originally intended for VR at a native 144hz is going to require a killer PC.

That said the low persistence will still be a big advantage and the display also has 80hz, 90hz and 120hz (the actual standard mode, 144hz is technically a beta mode) modes. At 90hz with the current motion smoothing tech your GPU only has to render at 45 fps and you still get the ultra low persistence.
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Old 05-08-2019, 09:00 AM
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Default Re: Nerd Alert: Valve Index.

hmmm.,.... sounds interesting....

No game devs for support of this?

I did the PS VR and that was hot garbage....
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Old 05-08-2019, 09:22 AM
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Default Re: Nerd Alert: Valve Index.

Originally Posted by vLad11591 View Post
No game devs for support of this?
It's Steam VR. There are already over 3000 VR titles. VR game development is still in it's infancy but yeah there is definitely stuff out there.
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Old 05-08-2019, 09:25 AM
  #16  
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Default Re: Nerd Alert: Valve Index.

This is something Apple with all their billions of dollars should get into and change the world. Apple iVR.
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Old 05-08-2019, 10:21 AM
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Default Re: Nerd Alert: Valve Index.

Google Glass didn't really work

I'd imagine a shiny white VR headset with a giant Apple logo emblazoned on the front would sell millions
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