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California Drought Watch: DEFCON 3

 
Old 04-01-2015, 01:12 PM
  #26  
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Default Re: California Drought Watch: DEFCON 3

anyone know anyone who farms and is being effected?

curious to hear their take.
i know around here in the 2010-13 drought people were starting to get crazy. a lot of people couldnt pay the water rights dues/canal maintenance and had their water shares/rights repo'd. some of the older folks around me have cashed out and retired instead of keep struggling.
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Old 04-01-2015, 01:14 PM
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Default Re: California Drought Watch: DEFCON 3

Originally Posted by rico91stang View Post
This is one of those cases where Agribusiness needs to make the cut. They get water for MUCH cheaper and are much more wasteful with it.
I agree with you in general, but they will take the cut by default. They'll get allotted after MWD and SFPUC take their share from state water project based on priority/juice. The places that are really screwed are smaller norcal cities who don't have the juice to wrassle with the big boys for state water, but don't have the usual water supply to stock their reservoirs (i.e. City of Folsom, Auburn, etc)
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Old 04-01-2015, 01:15 PM
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Default Re: California Drought Watch: DEFCON 3

This type of situation is part of why GMOs have developed. We may be able to engineer seeds and plants that require less water.


Thanks Monsanto. We are counting on you to save us again even though you will be villainized for it by stupid liberal college students who dont know ****.

#theherotheworldneeds
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Old 04-01-2015, 01:17 PM
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Default Re: California Drought Watch: DEFCON 3

Originally Posted by ford9n View Post
anyone know anyone who farms and is being effected?

curious to hear their take.
i know around here in the 2010-13 drought people were starting to get crazy. a lot of people couldnt pay the water rights dues/canal maintenance and had their water shares/rights repo'd. some of the older folks around me have cashed out and retired instead of keep struggling.
I don't know any farmers personally. Though the flashpoint of the drought is always the San Joaquin, which is generally farmed by big ag. Smaller independent farmers found towards the coasts: Watsonville, Santa Maria, Ventura, etc. different economics for both, and the independent farmers selling boutique stuff usually much more open to adjusting. Doesn't mean that they're all doing honky dory though. Would be interesting to hit up the Santa Monica's farmer's market and talk to small farmers there.
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Old 04-01-2015, 01:19 PM
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Old 04-01-2015, 01:26 PM
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Default Re: California Drought Watch: DEFCON 3

Back when I was in college, years ago we talked about agribusiness buying up land and creating resevoirs to store water for themselves because they knew this was coming. They were supposedly planning to sell the water back to the state.
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Old 04-01-2015, 02:06 PM
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Default Re: California Drought Watch: DEFCON 3

Originally Posted by rico91stang View Post
Back when I was in college, years ago we talked about agribusiness buying up land and creating resevoirs to store water for themselves because they knew this was coming. They were supposedly planning to sell the water back to the state.

'back when i was in college" ROFL. No Rico.

but ya this drought really sucks. People need to stop taking 2 showers a day, take it easy on the Farming.
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Old 04-01-2015, 02:11 PM
  #33  
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5 min, Navy showers! 2 min wash/1 min lather and scrub/2 rinse.
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Old 04-01-2015, 02:51 PM
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Default Re: California Drought Watch: DEFCON 3

Also, because the drought begs the question: "What about Desalination???"

And while we can desalinate seawater now, the fact remains that it is too expensive at this point to be viable on its own. Desal will only become an option if the construction, production, and final sale prices of the product water are heavily subsidized by the state and/or federal government.

The current desal project in Carlsbad, CA can produce 50 million gallons per day of product water. The project cost is approximately $1 Billion dollars. Traditionally, the cost of producing 1 acre-foot (43,560 cubic feet, or ~326,000 gallons) of water for domestic water use is about $300 (though, this varies based on a number of factors). The cost for producing 1 acre-foot of desal water is $2000. So without state or federal subsidies, the cost of desal water is about 6x more expensive. Also, the costs of operating a desal plant are very high, as the system requires high-maintenance equipment and lots of power.

What complicates this is that after your $1B investment, your 600% more expensive water, what happens when the drought breaks? Usually the desal plants shutter because they have no one who will pay for the water. Short term shutdowns may not be as bad, but say there's a 3 or 4 year break to the drought---by the time the drought is back on, the desal plant is pushing 10 years old, is less efficient, more expensive to operate, and no one can simply sit on a $1B depreciating asset and write it off.

So, making desal feasible is going to take a major investment, and it's one that has a national impact and therefore will require a national investment, like it or not.
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Old 04-01-2015, 03:32 PM
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Default Re: California Drought Watch: DEFCON 3

Harris Ranch and those ranchers in Coalinga should move their cows somewhere else for the time being. Cows are the largest water hogs in comparison to fruits and vegetables.
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Old 04-01-2015, 04:57 PM
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Default Re: California Drought Watch: DEFCON 3

Originally Posted by bad-monkey View Post
Also, because the drought begs the question: "What about Desalination???"

And while we can desalinate seawater now, the fact remains that it is too expensive at this point to be viable on its own. Desal will only become an option if the construction, production, and final sale prices of the product water are heavily subsidized by the state and/or federal government.

The current desal project in Carlsbad, CA can produce 50 million gallons per day of product water. The project cost is approximately $1 Billion dollars. Traditionally, the cost of producing 1 acre-foot (43,560 cubic feet, or ~326,000 gallons) of water for domestic water use is about $300 (though, this varies based on a number of factors). The cost for producing 1 acre-foot of desal water is $2000. So without state or federal subsidies, the cost of desal water is about 6x more expensive. Also, the costs of operating a desal plant are very high, as the system requires high-maintenance equipment and lots of power.

What complicates this is that after your $1B investment, your 600% more expensive water, what happens when the drought breaks? Usually the desal plants shutter because they have no one who will pay for the water. Short term shutdowns may not be as bad, but say there's a 3 or 4 year break to the drought---by the time the drought is back on, the desal plant is pushing 10 years old, is less efficient, more expensive to operate, and no one can simply sit on a $1B depreciating asset and write it off.

So, making desal feasible is going to take a major investment, and it's one that has a national impact and therefore will require a national investment, like it or not.
They're building one in San Diego too IIRC.

edit: You mention the costs, but at the end of the day, people need water to live...
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Old 04-01-2015, 05:17 PM
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Default Re: California Drought Watch: DEFCON 3

Originally Posted by FrreeeBird View Post
They're building one in San Diego too IIRC.

edit: You mention the costs, but at the end of the day, people need water to live...
that they do. so do we bifurcate the water supply? Could be that water wholesalers like MWD, SFPUC, etc get grant money to fund and run their own desal plants and adjust production based on supply/demand in addition to their other supply sources. Meanwhile Ag concerns continue to scrap for water rights as administered by DWR and the like.

One thing that I haven't mentioned is recycled water. Currently recycled water is much more viable than desalination and the technology not only exists, but is constructed and operating to take our raw sewage and turn it into water that's even purer than what comes out of our tap. Title 22 recycled water (tertiary treatment) is currently cheaper than potable water and is perfect for irrigation.
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Old 04-01-2015, 05:26 PM
  #38  
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Default Re: California Drought Watch: DEFCON 3

Originally Posted by rico91stang View Post
This is one of those cases where Agribusiness needs to make the cut. They get water for MUCH cheaper and are much more wasteful with it.
ORRRR just dont live in a ******* developing desert environment?

I dunno.

just become las vegas. build casinos which can withstand the monetary pressure of literally importing all your water.

******* asses with perfect weather wanting their cake while not having to pay to eat it.

/1st world problems.

p.s.s. do you use your hand to wipe your ***, water, or paper/flush?
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Old 04-01-2015, 05:34 PM
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Default Re: California Drought Watch: DEFCON 3

OMG! What about the bunny ranch? Are they in trouble too?
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Old 04-01-2015, 05:38 PM
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***** stays wet when it sees my dick so its all good.
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Old 04-01-2015, 06:31 PM
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Default Re: California Drought Watch: DEFCON 3

Sooooooooooo they just now started restrictions? LMAO. I've only been able to water my lawn once a week for the past 3 years.
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Old 04-01-2015, 06:59 PM
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Old 04-01-2015, 06:59 PM
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my grass looks great. sprinklers go on every night at 3am so nobody knows any better
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Old 04-02-2015, 06:47 AM
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Default Re: California Drought Watch: DEFCON 3

Originally Posted by Xentropa View Post
Harris Ranch and those ranchers in Coalinga should move their cows somewhere else for the time being. Cows are the largest water hogs in comparison to fruits and vegetables.
please explain.

i hear this "cows are the problem" a lot - especially during drought years.
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Old 04-02-2015, 06:49 AM
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I think cows have a low edible mass/calorie per gallon of water used ratio.
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Old 04-02-2015, 07:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Xentropa View Post
I think cows have a low edible mass/calorie per gallon of water used ratio.
because i dont know where/what type of operation are referring to, i have to suspect a factory type farm.

i agree there is a landscape/climate that is better suited for cows/livestock than others.
i would argue that well managed cows are a benefit to the land. some land (mainly semi-arid to warm temperate grasslands) needs cows to continue to be healthy.

also - a cows only product isnt meat/milk
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Old 04-02-2015, 08:45 AM
  #47  
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Default Re: California Drought Watch: DEFCON 3

Originally Posted by ForcedAccord View Post
Sooooooooooo they just now started restrictions? LMAO. I've only been able to water my lawn once a week for the past 3 years.
No ****. My area has had water restrictions for years. I think it's every other day for watering now, when it used to be one day a week, hand-watering only.
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Old 04-02-2015, 08:51 AM
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My neighbor washes his three cars every morning
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Old 04-02-2015, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by acmoc View Post
My neighbor washes his three cars every morning
******* bastard. Some people just can't figure it out
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Old 04-02-2015, 07:59 PM
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Default Re: California Drought Watch: DEFCON 3

Originally Posted by bad-monkey View Post
heading over there right naow





In general, I like Jerry Brown. But what I think is fishy is that these savings are going to pale in comparison to the amount of water almond farmers use. Reducing 25% of ag water use would be a HUUUUGE savings. Of course, it would implode the economy and turn the SJ Valley into a giant ghetto of unemployment, but we'd have water for the coasts!! JB isn't going to publicly **** with ag though, because those guys are foaming at the mouth angry all the time.
They also feed, like, the entire country... IMO telling people to quit washing their ******* hondas, watering their cookie cutter suburban lawns, and quit taking hour long showers makes a little more sense than immediately bankrupting an agricultural giant of the country.
I'd definitely get behind pushing almond farms to knock it off, and focus on less water intensive crops. But that's a much more in depth conversation that needs some planning.
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