therealciviczc

This is the first time I had ever dyno'd my ZC with the turbo. I knew FMUs were a bad way to go. I knew A/F meters weren't worth a ****. I knew I was risking it, and to be honest, I'm still driving it while I wait on my eprom burner.

Anyway... I thought you guys might find the A/F graph amusing...



If my crappy geocities won't work, the link is http://illicitohio.com/zcturbo.jpg


EDIT: Forgot to mention, this is year 2 of driving it this way... going on year 3.

TorganFM.

That's scary ****.

mrbsponge

holy ****

StolenTeg

And that thing is not blown up yet??? that too lean!!!

MooreBoost

What FMU?

Bailhatch

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tegunderpressure &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> What FMU?</TD></TR></TABLE>

like it matters

DLB1994

is it the 12:1 rise rate

Mr. Softee

are you using an inline fuel pump

MooreBoost

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Bailhatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

like it matters </TD></TR></TABLE>

Hah, FMU's aren't great, but they arent that bad. I had a Vortech SFMU on my teg and my A/F ratio was much cleaner than that.

gritsak

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tegunderpressure &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Hah, FMU's aren't great, but they arent that bad. I had a Vortech SFMU on my teg and my A/F ratio was much cleaner than that. </TD></TR></TABLE>

yeah with as many people running around with drag type kits with FMU's..there would be cars blowing up daily...my guess is the guy doesnt have an inline pump and the intank cant keep up

highschooler

maybe something in your fuel system is just now starting to break, or the fmu is inconsistant, but I don't see how it would hold up almost 3 years with this bad of an a/f ratio.
Is this a Vortec FMU, and what fuel pump are you using?

PureTeg420

haha there's a lot more to your problem than just "FMU can't cut it". You're not even at 200whp. FMU's have been used to over 350whp...although I would never reccomend that, as they are a cheap bandaid

SOHC_MShue

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PureTeg420 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">haha there's a lot more to your problem than just "FMU can't cut it". You're not even at 200whp. FMU's have been used to over 350whp...although I would never reccomend that, as they are a cheap bandaid</TD></TR></TABLE>

not even at 200whp? What do you expect out of a zc probably running a fairly low amount of boost? I think those numbers are pretty respectable considering how fucked up his a/f is. I don't know why you would expect him to be well over 200.

therealciviczc

HA!! I know its horrible. This is one of those things I had been meaning to fix for years and now I finally have the motivation.

It is a 12:1 Vortech. I think the stock injectors were going static. I have a walbro in tank 255 hi flow pump, so I think the pressure is there, I just don't think the stock injectors can take it. I think the super lean part is probably where the boost spikes a little from the ghetto boost controller, but I'm stunned that the moter never threw in the towel. The strange thing is that the plugs always looked really good, and even rich at times .

Anyway, this is my motivation to fix it. Please understand that I put this up for amusement, not to knock FMUs or anything. I know they can work when used correctly, I just had too many ghetto things going on at once. I thought some people would get a little chuckle out of it. I was shocked how bad it was even though I knew it would be jacked.

The setup is as follows...

** DOHC ZC - just like it came from the factory.
** SI trans
** Greddy 92-95 SOHC manifold, Turbo, and down pipe
** Boostvalve "ball type boost controller"
** Vortech 12:1 FMU
** Walbro 255lph high flow
** Stock injectors
** 88-89 integra ECU
** ghetto intercooler from a conquest
** my own ghettofied piping
** HKS bov that I found in a junkyard

So now I'm chaning to 450's and turboedit or something like that.

JDMCRX

iTrader: (2)

Look liks the stock pump is not flowing enough due to the fact when boost hit the FMU cranks the pressure up and the fuel pump can not supply enough fuel in that 4k to 6k .

Dude get a intake or inline looks exactly like my friends ZC before we did a inline pump. U will also pick up some power with more fuel.

JDMCRX

iTrader: (2)

Power looks good tho man

DaX

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JDMCRX &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Look liks the stock pump is not flowing enough due to the fact when boost hit the FMU cranks the pressure up and the fuel pump can not supply enough fuel in that 4k to 6k .</TD></TR></TABLE>

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by therealciviczc &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have a walbro in tank 255 hi flow pump, so I think the pressure is there, I just don't think the stock injectors can take it.</TD></TR></TABLE>


Modified by DaX at 11:19 AM 7/23/2004

ITRpwrdEG

Why hasn't anyone asked him the obvious!!!!!!!!!?

What pump are you using? Walbro makes two kinds for in the tank.
1. 255lph (high volume only)
2. 255lph (high volume + high pressure)

There is a big difference. Walbro sent me fuel pressure curves for both of these pumps and the 1st pump falls off after 80, but can ramp up to 90psi if lucky, but it's not safe. Pump #2, which he would be smart to run, is just like any inline 255lph pump, only it's walbros version that goes in the tank. It supports both high volume and pressure. Now this pump can easily see 140psi, but really shouldn't be pushed past 150psi. On the graph, it really didn't start to falloff until 160psi, but you should always leave yourself a little room in case of boost creep or whatever.

For all of you guys that don't think you can run in-tanks with FMU's, you can. I just had my car dynoed on 8psi with an h22a in my 1992 SI and it put down 290whp and the a/f ratio was around 11.9-12.3 all the way. It actually richened up past 5k so we used a vafc to tune it down and it runs flawless. I actually see 230lbs of torque at 4000rpms. That's my secret though.

Inline fuel pumps are the biggest waste of money, when you will have to get rid of it and run an intank fuel pump if you decide to ever go standalone. You would keep an inline along with the Walbro if you had a 600hp car, but who has street cars like that, not a lot. Why not just do the 255lph High Volume and High Pressure right away and call it quits. Plus Walbros are $109 shipped at the most (w/ install kit) and inline fuel pumps run $120-$150.

my .02

Best deal on Walbros, go to:
http://www.lightningmotorsports.com
-ask for HondaTech discount.

therealciviczc

I'm fairly sure it is the high volume/high pressure. It was the 'best' of the 3 choices listed on the site you provided. This would have been about 3 years ago though, so its tought to remember.

It really doesn't matter though. I'm just going to go with bigger injectors and whatnot. I'm pulling basically starting fresh with everything from the tank up.

DLB1994

you have to have a inline fuel pump no matter was with a 12:1 rise rate fmu

i dont care what kinda intank you have its not going to cut it

FOrSfEd

Damn!!!!!! Scary ****

JDMCRX

iTrader: (2)

Yeah we did a scoroco VW inline pump in my buddies ZC cleaned it up big time.

ITRpwrdEG

DLB,

Walbro has been in the business for years. People don't just market having two different style intank fuel pumps if the flow characteristics are the same. Because do you know how easy it is for one person to install one of them, dyno it, and then bash the crap out of Walbro. Yeah, its pretty easy. Don't you think they would have changed its design or stopped producing them if this was the case. Well, what do you know, you can still buy them. Show us some A/F plots specifically of the high pressure intanks and then leave room to talk. Its funny, but my fuel pressure gauge shows 120psi at 6lbs of boost. Wow, from what you said, my fuel pump should have shut off at 90psi. Walbro must have totally messed up calculations, since im sure they are just high schoolers making these fuel pumps.

for your information, if I didnt have a VAFC on the dyno i wouldn't have been able to lean out my A/F, because my car runs richer and richer past 5,000 rpms, and that is on 7.5psi. So I would be safe in saying i'm hitting in the upwards range of 160psi with the FMU.

I wish I had money for Hondata and dyno time, but I am happy with low boost and a properly tuned FMU. That's the problem, people don't think you have to tune an FMU setup, but you do.

nsxmatt

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ITRpwrdEG &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">DLB,

Walbro has been in the business for years. People don't just market having two different style intank fuel pumps if the flow characteristics are the same. Because do you know how easy it is for one person to install one of them, dyno it, and then bash the crap out of Walbro. Yeah, its pretty easy. Don't you think they would have changed its design or stopped producing them if this was the case. Well, what do you know, you can still buy them. Show us some A/F plots specifically of the high pressure intanks and then leave room to talk. Its funny, but my fuel pressure gauge shows 120psi at 6lbs of boost. Wow, from what you said, my fuel pump should have shut off at 90psi. Walbro must have totally messed up calculations, since im sure they are just high schoolers making these fuel pumps.

for your information, if I didnt have a VAFC on the dyno i wouldn't have been able to lean out my A/F, because my car runs richer and richer past 5,000 rpms, and that is on 7.5psi. So I would be safe in saying i'm hitting in the upwards range of 160psi with the FMU.

I wish I had money for Hondata and dyno time, but I am happy with low boost and a properly tuned FMU. That's the problem, people don't think you have to tune an FMU setup, but you do.




</TD></TR></TABLE>

Walbro intanks even the high pressure do not provide a safe amount needed to run the line pressures the FMU provides. You may "get by" with it but why? Get a inline pump. They reccomend it, they include them in the kits, and people who use them don't have these problems.

boostd hatch

Did you dyno this at the show in Norwalk? That afr curve looks pretty familiar.