TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

With the nickle-cast iron content that's in a lot of the better companies like Garrett and BW, its not nearly as much of a concern to worry about.. It's one of those actualities that occur really only when the worse case scenario happens. The probability of that occurrence with these gasoline piston applications is very low. enough to not be concerned with as long as the tune is applied properly.

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

True. It just never hurts to be vigilant about things like that because you never really know for sure.

I have photos somewhere of what a high output turbo 13B-REW Time Attack car did to a BE turbine housing running a blanket. It's scary, like to the point where you can't fathom how the turbine wheel wasn't damaged and that the turbo didn't suffer a huge loss in response and efficiency.

Now granted this really only applies to vehicles that are going to be driven very hard. Like a Time Attack car or other situations where the turbocharger sees a period of extended hard operation on a regular basis. If we are talking about a typical street car that is driven *RESPONSIBLY* most of the time and occasionally sees mountain runs, track days, autox, drag racing, etc then this problem becomes moot. In these instances the turbine housing will outlive the vehicle.

Raf99

Thanks ESP.net. A lot of info there.

I see the blankets for T3s, i'll pick one up for sure. I think the coolant hose blankets are the "HPS 3/8" ID x 3 Feet Long 4-ply Silicone Coolant Tube Hose Black 9.5mm"? I'm assuming these slide over the hose and now that I have everything together one can cut the tube to fit over or disconnect everything and slide the tubes on?

Oh the transmission, the weakest link currently for me. I am trying to swap a F23 5th gear into the T2T4 but running into some issues. I wont' go into details but it involves having the F23 CS 5th gear shaved down 4mm and having to use 1mm shims. I may have to run two top bearings on the CS rather than the two OEM ones that are on it and I'm not sure of the consequences of such But it will be an OEM LSD T2T4 with carbon synchros and a F23 5th gear. Then I'll start saving for a aftermarket LSD and build up another transmission for when this one fails.

*sigh. If only I knew who I could talk to about that whole tranny thing. First time opening one up for me.

ESP.net

I have opened one transmission before to put in an LSD PG in it back in the day. It is pretty crucial thing. I have a buddy that has put together hundreds of Honda transmissions so I am lucky there... look him up Trans Lab on facebook. Sells synchrotech carbon syncrho's...lsds...and custom gears.... mfactory... and does all installs. Good deals. Give him a shoot.

Raf99

Will do. Thanks

jdm_h22

Not to thread jack, but in the OP's situation (A street application approaching 500-600hp) what is the "ideal" fuel? Pump fuel? E85? Race fuel?

I know there are some obvious factors (i.e. availability and component compatibility) but generally speaking....

My initial thoughts:

-While pump gas + methanol is readily available, I feel like this setup takes on some added risk with the additional components needed to utilize meth. The probability of something going wrong increases. Say, if the meth pump didn't actuate at high rpm like it was supposed to.

-I'm an E85 dreamer. Never ran it but would like to try it. Poor man's race fuel.

-With race fuel, I feel that availability and price prevent it from being an "ideal" street car fuel.

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

E85 is the most economical choice if it's readily available. It's like 1.80 a gallon at the pump down the street. Granted "pump gas" 87 floats around 1.88-2.05 a gallon, 93 goes as high as 2.25.

93+water meth is a proven setup however if you're buying premix it gets expensive, especially with the extra fees for shipping hazardous materials. I can get a 55 gallon drum of methanol for like 200 dollars locally which makes running water/meth dirt cheap and allows me to play with the ratios a bit. We've basically confirmed that straight water has the highest IAT drop. 50/50 has less IAT drop but makes a bit more power. 70% methanol makes the most power with the least IAT drop but we are talking a difference of only a few degrees.

Granted most people shouldn't run higher methanol concentrations due to the fire risk but all the cars I plan on running 70/30 on will have a firewall between the rear of the car and passenger area plus fire suppression so I'm not too worried about it. Add in that anything higher than 50/50 has to be in an FIA approved fuel cell and the fire risk drops to 0.

Water meth has also shown promising results on E85 setups. Most people here will tell you it's redundant due to the cooling properties and octane of E85 but even the most basic 50/50 kits are showing gains. As an example a 600-700hp single turbo 2JZ supra running E85 picked up 100hp/100tq with a basic single nozzle 50/50 kit. I'll be curious to see what kind of results it nets with a high pressure (1000psi) system running multiple nozzles (pre-turbo, direct port).

The problem most commercial kits encounter is poor/uneven atomization and uneven flow. All of this boils down to the pump being used. Virtually every kit uses some version of a flojet diaphragm bilge pump. These pumps by design have large fluctuations in pressure and flow as they operate. Couple this with most people running poor quality nozzles (read: poor atomization) and injecting wayyy too much water/meth only compounds the problem.

Companies have tried to remedy this with solenoids and PWM circuits but it only amounts to bandaid solutions. Sadly most companies use these pumps because of cheap initial cost (under 50 each in bulk) and a high profit margin. Some companies charge in excess of 250 for one of these bypass style pumps and all they've done is put a sticker on it.

Now granted for a basic single nozzle kit they work ok but when you start adding nozzles to the system and ever increasing flow rates things nose dive fast.

I have two Tilton differential pumps and all they are is a flojet diaphragm bilge pump. They are noisy (why they are supplied with rubber mounts) and their operation causes huge spikes in flow and pressure. Honestly I hate them. I'll be replacing them with brass gear drive pumps the first chance I get.

I'm also excited to test out high pressure injection (1000psi). I've managed to find the exact pump high end companies are charging 450 for at a fraction of the price. High pressure like that means greater safety risks but the system I've designed should have no problems. The main danger is fitting/line failures but what I've sourced has a burst pressure around 4000psi so no problems. I know it's going to take lots of tweaks and revisions but I feel the end product will be worth it and superior to lower pressure kits, especially for those wanting to try pre-turbo injection where the low pressure bilge pumps are killing compressor wheels left and right due to poor atomization. At 1000psi through a proper atomizing nozzle the output is basically fog. This means maximum surface area which should cause an almost immediate evaporation into a gas.

LightningTeg

If its not a daily driver, and you have E85 around, do it. Its a no brainer.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

I find that being the opposite. Do it only if being a daily driver due to the issues that E85 works against in the fuel system if the car is sitting for several months at a time. I know some will argue and disagree with that premise, but that has been my experience with this fuel in my region of the country.

Otherwise, using other fuels shouldn't be too cost-ineffective, because you're not driving the car as often, and you don't need to invest in all of the additional components needed to run that type of fuel.

Turbocharger/manifold and boost pressure choices also tend to sway the choice as to whether or not one uses "pump gas" vs. more exotic fuel options.

500-600whp really shouldn't be daily driver territory anyway for a Honda unless you're like LightningTeg above for a lot of the motorway antics that he involves himself with.

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

Yea it takes a pretty serious tire/suspension combination to consistently put down that kind of power. The cost of these kinds of tires and their short lifespan in terms of mileage along with the ride quality of such a suspension pushes the car out of the daily driver realm for most

I'm weird though, if a car doesn't have a stiff, confident ride I can't stand driving it. All of my DDs have some sort of suspension work lol. Ranging from lowering springs to full coil overs, arms, and spherical bearings everywhere, and solid engine mounts (urethane is for pussies)

LightningTeg

Lol Motorway antics . Its not my daily driver though.

I wouldnt go that far, but I cant stand soft suspensions on carts like my moms old surbaru outback or a buick of any model. Its like driving a boat.

ESP.net

On my 500 hp dc2 h23v t46266. I use the trusty kit called Devils Own Stage 2 with controller. Few other H buddies used the same kit. One was 600 other was 750 whp. It does take some doing to get going and more things that could possibly fail. However it will keep your engine temps down, able to run more timing and boost, turn your pump gas octane to 110+. E85 will need twice the injector size and twice the fuel. Varrying ethanol levels from batch to batch can effect a tune.

I personally think there pumps are the best on the market far as quality and durability. Some kits cannot take more then 50/50 mix will just give out cheaper units. Devils own can run a bit more in favor of methanol. However most only use at most 60/40.

I have not used the kit on the dyno. Setting it up wire wise isn't all that hard, no need for additional relays.

The controller has a boost/vacuum port which will sense at a certain boost pressure to activate and be able to adjust how much... I am using a 10 gal nozzle. Usually good up to 650. Controller has a built in safe float switch incase gets too low and light will go on...

However the tricky part of this setup is you will need a custom transducer to be T'd into the line up front. This will need to bet pressurized and set for a certain pressure internally. What this will do is any fail in pressure drop it will shift maps and boost pressure to a safe zone. If pump fails etc etc... this is pretty much a crucial step and hardest to setup...

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

They literally use the same flojet pump as everyone else. They just put a different sticker on it.

Raf99

I have never felt more of a turbo noob until now