mrsteezy123

dipstick fluctuates allot more than a n/a motor would, and the consistency of the oil is different after only a couple hundred miles of some decently hard driving.

okay lets say i just got a oil change, 4 qt's. The oil is nice, and clear, top dot. 1 week later of daily driving its now between the two dots in the middle (which apparently is spec for a gsr)
then two weeks later its usually right under halfway, and the oil seems GLOOPY and dark, but When i warm up the car and let it sit to allow the oil to drain back in the pan, the oil consistency returns back to being goldish and sits around the middle of the dots on the dipstick.

to test my theory i drained my oil after 2k miles and extracted 3.8 qts (which is spec for a gsr without changing the filter)
so that means my oil went from sitting at the top dot to sitting right underneath the middle of the two dots, without losing any oil?

we compared this to my friends completely oem b18 and his oil sits perfectly at the top dot and never really breaks down and alters the reading on his disptick.

you might ask why i would even consider this a problem, when now here's why, i topped my car off with oil for MONTHS thinking it was low just to find that my car would burn it off, so i was convinced my car just burned oil, but i always wondered why i wouldn't burn oil once my oils halfway on the dipstick and it would run smoother it seem'd. so i drained it and to my surprise it was perfectly fine.


*CLIFF QUESTION BELOW
Which raises the question how much turbo bros are actually just overfilling with oil believing that they need to be at the top dot, but dont account the damage the oil goes through and its consistency changes in terms of reading on a stick, oil that has been exposed to the extreme heat of a turbo, tends to bond together more when cooled back down thus altering the reading of the dipstick

the proper way to check is to warm the car up, then let it sit for 20 minuets, this way yielded me consistent results throughout this whole oil change, MIND you the ONLY oil change i have ever done on this car without having to add oil and im no longer burning oil while driving because im no longer overfilling.

so how many of those 'help boosted motor burning oil with perfect compression' threads are actually just guys over filling .5 a quart thus backing up the oil drain and letting it burn itself off? and they repeat the cycle only because they cant properly read the dipstick.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Could be bearing clearances. Could be the cylinder head burning oil from the valve seals.

Most here go by the "in-between" two dots method, using the amount of oil that makes sense. About 4.2- 5.2 quarts depending upon oil pan, turbocharger, any oil coolers, etc.

What you're getting at is rather vague considering the hundreds of possible setups that turbo cars can have.

mrsteezy123

i think it apply's to most of the standard turbo honda setups, because the dipstick was created to read oil levels on a engine that was never supposed to have a turbo.
meaning on a n/a gsr you can keep the oil level right at the top dot because the oil never really gets damaged by the high heat of a turbo, when you have oil thats seen the heat of a turbo it tends to bond together more when cooled back down.
So you pull your dipstick out when your cars been sitting over night, and gravity forces the oil to bunch together more on the dipstick to the most dense part (the bottom) you can even turn the dipstick upside down and see the oil doesn't spread easily,
until you start the car and get the oil hot again the readings wont be accurate..
something that i was always interested in was how many people with turbo b/d series claimed that shell rotella cured their oil burning problem, and something interesting i found out was, shell rotella doesn't break down as easily as other oils, it maintains its original form more then other oils, meaning it maintains its consistency in terms of reading on a dipstick.

basically i believe (After my friend was literally doing the same exact thing as me) that a large amount of people with turbo setups are overfilling their engines by topping it off, basing it off inaccurate dipstick readings thus in turn burning it and repeating a cycle of burning off overfilled engine oil.

its not a everyone problem, but its def something that i guarantee multiple people are doing every day, usually people who really care about their engine and are super **** about keeping everything 100 percent (me).

turbociv910

Fill it to the dot and and ad a little more seems to work for me

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

mrsteezy123

its a very common issue, the guy in the video literally describes the same exact problems that I, and many others are having (without knowing)
he drains his oil and realizes he was a quart over (Even though it was sitting at the top dot), and he pulls his return line to realize its backed up (by overfilling)
even though on the oem honda dipstick it was reading full capacity top dot, but on a turbo setup that top dot suddenly becomes 1 quart over??

its a real issue

boosted94gsr

Wouldn't the oil drop below the turbo oil return bung while the engine is running and oil is being circulated?

mrsteezy123

It depends how high you welded your fitting.
I reckon if you welded it at the very top the oils never supposed to get that high on the pan anway thats near the crank and way above the pickup.
Ideally you want the oil drain to be above the oil level that way theres no resistance and chance of backing up the drain line, that's the main reasoning that you burn oil when you overfill

When i maintained my oil at the top dot on the dipstick i was overfilled and constantly burning.

Caoboy

lulz


OP, please read up on viscosity

mrsteezy123

:You're not accounting for gravity bud, you pull the dipstick which way? Up.
meaning oil flows down, so the dipstick isn't a accurate measure of how much is in the pan.
Otherwise i wouldn't have drained 3.8qts and gone from top dot, to lower middle without losing anything.

And im curious why don't you elaborate about viscosity? Because im not sure what it has to do with anything, 4qts is 4qts regardless of the viscosity, so the level in the pan is the same regardless of weight.

Caoboy

Do you know how much oil your filter holds?

Take a guess.

mrsteezy123

My filter doesn't really "hold" any significant oil after the cars been shut off it drains back into the pan, but while the filter is full when the engines in duty probably 3/4 of a quart.
Dont see how any of this matters considering we're talking about reading the dipstick level on a cold car with a honda filter every time lol

pogeeboy27

iTrader: (3)

That 0.2 quarts you say you are missing was absorbed by the filter element in your oil filter.

mrsteezy123

cmon bro, thats not what this is about...
that .2 qts is insignificant on the dipstick so whether it got burned off or absorbed by the filter is besides the point.
the point is
FRESH oil change 4qts sits at the top dot for like a week then it sits in the lower middle half but when i drain the pan the oil level is still pretty much 4qts..but the level on the dipstick changed significantly.

where as on a n/a honda motor the dipstick minimum and maximum dot represent 1 qt and its usually pretty accurate.

where as on mine (And many other ) basic turbo setups the dipstick no longer reads accurately as it would oem, have it be heat damage to the oil, the drain line messing the reading, all the turbo lines being full of oil ect ect.
all i know is top dot on my setup is almost 5 quarts on a stock gsr oil pan besides the first week that i change the oil.

pogeeboy27

iTrader: (3)

Then continue testing your theory and report back in a year. Factory turbo cars use the same method when checking oil levels so I guess they must be wrong also.

mrsteezy123

no actually they don't, because a factory turbos hi and low markings are created under the condition that that factory turbo car sees.
the markings are created around a car that's going to have additional hoses and lines for the oil feed and drain.

but you're totally right bro, my dipstick doesn't read 5 quarts at top dot, neither does that doods in the video, i just magically drain 5qts if i top my car off to the top dot, magic bro nothings wrong.

Caoboy

No, the factory turbo cars have a dipstick that reads how much oil is in the pan.

That's all the dipstick does. It's an indicator of how much oil you have in your pan. Have you ever inspected how low the pan reads on the dip stick? how much a 'full pan' actually is?

Think about all these factors that will change that reading.

Hot VS cold oil.

Level in a garage, sitting on the street, or in the driveway.

Oil change, replacing the oil filter. Now you have a new filter that fills up with oil (the only way to negate this factor is to fill up the oil filter, then dump the rest of the oil change amount into your engine)

How long after driving you check the oil. Oil will still be in the head, draining down the galleys back into the pan.

Another big factor would be if you are slightly burning oil in higher RPM ranges, under high boost, etc, where it's consistent with your driving style, and while you THINK it's some random mysterious oil loss, you don't realize you are causing it.


There are SO many variables that attribute to possible 'oil loss' and what you are thinking you are losing (are you measuring with a graduated cylinder? how much are you soaking up with a towel? How much is left in the pan? are you removing the oil from the filter as well and are you factoring for what oil is left in the pan and galleys and head as well?)

Lastly, you're worried about .2qt.

That's 20% of 1/4 of the total amount.

Literally a 5% loss.

pogeeboy27

iTrader: (3)

Let him go, hence my comment of checking back in a year after testing his theory. He'll figure out sooner or later what is being done to his engine.

mrsteezy123

its actually quite comical that neither of you have a single clue what im talking about..
im going to try to simplify this to the easiest level possible cause clearly this is too much for you guys.

THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE .2 QUARTS OF OIL THAT WAS LOSS.

if the dipstick is such a fool proof system how come my gsr at TOP DOT will DRAIN 5 QTS.
thats the problem bud.

let me walk both you guys through this, fresh oil change (no filter change) 4 quarts top dot on dipstick, after two weeks its at the middle of the dipstick WHILE COLD...so to get that dipstick back to top dot like it was when i started it take me a whole extra quart of oil, making the top dot 5 quarts which isn't right, now is it?

so when im back to the middle i drain the oil and pull basically 4qts, so the level on the dipstick fluctuated halfway WITHOUT LOSING ANY OIL...
and attempting to TOP IT OFF back to the top dot, results in overfilling a almost a whole quart.

so you guys should probably hop off the high horse here

nothing is being done to my engine, im attempting to help people that may being having the same problem, you can bring up irrelevant crap all day, but the fact is i drained almost 5 quarts from my oem oil pan when i topped my car off only to the top dot on the dipstick. so you can pretend like that's not a problem but clearly the oem honda dipstick isnt reading true in MY setup and would result in me overfilling.

simple cliffs
-the dipstick level drops from top dot to middle without losing any oil (confirmed by me draining the pan and yeilding 3.8qts)
- topping off the to the top dot on my dipstick results in overfilling almost a whole quart.

so are you guys going to pretend that its completely normal to drain almost a whole extra quart, when the dipstick reads (full) which is 4 qts.

Caoboy

How quickly are you checking the oil once you fill it?

mrsteezy123

Finally a question that can get us somewhere.
Well when i topped it off i checked 10 mins after adding 3/4 qaurt and that took me to the lower middle on the dipstick (while cold) to the upper dot (while cold)
So i drained the pan after adding the fresh oil to see how much is really in there to make it to the top dot, and to my suprise i was almost at 5 quarts.
Thats when i added 4 qts (again) and waited until the oil setlled halfway on the dipstick then i drained 4qts (3.8)
So somehow my oil level at top dot reads way over, i found the guy in the video had the same problem.

Caoboy

So you added 3/4 of a quart.
Lower middle of dipstick.

Drained pan and had 5 quarts.

Added 4 quarts.
Middle of dipstick

Drained 3.8.

And you are assuming the oil level on the top dot is supposed to read how much?

TravisBiggie

its know it all attitudes like this that gives this forum the stench it has. Thanks for making it obvious.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Really this was a result of sincere intrigue. I had no idea that something this simple conceptually and practically can be made to become such over-emotional, tension-creating,convoluted, never-ending topic in which everyone else has to be wrong in order to have a valid point of its ridiculousness.

So, what can I say......Thanks?

mrsteezy123

the top of the dipstick is supposed to represent (per manual) full capacity no?
so full capacity on a gsr is 4.25 qts,all i know is for whatever reason top dot results in me overfilling and backing up my drain line.