wantboost

iTrader: (2)

So after taking my y8 apart this week that lost oil failure and killed every bearing I started thinking about a fun BS project... Especially since after seeing how clean the y8 was after teardown I can't bring myself to sell it to persons unknown...

I don't think I can recall anyone that has done a high compression turbo D16 setup, almost every single one I've seen is either running Vitaras or some other internals around 9:1. Only exception I've seen as far as high compression single cams is a user on here who built a 10:1 F23 for his accord.

I did a bit of research and threw together a parts list of what I feel would make for a fun strictly street car motor.

Fuel would be e85 along with methanol injection.

Power goal somewhere in the 300-350hp range

Block:

Stock sleeves, 75mm bore
NPR P29 pistons, 75mm bore (teflon coated skirts)
H beam rods (Eagle, Scat, Probe, etc)
ACL main and rod bearings
Z6 crank - would have it worked over a bit, chamfer and teardrop oil ports on mains, radius oil ports on rod journals, have ***** removed, passages cleaned and honed, replace ***** with NPT pipe plugs, micro-polish journals, balance, possibly have FFWD "butcher" the crank)
ARP Headstuds
New OEM water pump
New OEM y8 oil pump - ported and gasket match inlet/outlet, radius block port to match pump outlet, not sure on shimming the relief, possibly have gears cryotreated and DLC (or similar method) coated
OEM Harmonic Balancer (possibly an ATI?)
B&R Fittings 10-an block fittings

Head:

Debating if porting will be beneficial, probably not for the power output goals. Either way ports will be gasket matched
Supertech springs & retainers
Delta 272-2 regrind
A reliable adjustable cam gear
OEM Headgasket
Edelbrock Performer X intake manifold
68mm Throttle Body
Speedfactory style vented valve cover

Turbo "Kit"/Exhaust:

There's a couple of different options here... I know the 2860 will do 300 maybe 330... 350 would be a stretch. 2871 would do that and more. The 16g would definitely make more than 350 with its compressor wheel flowing roughly 42lb/min and the twin scroll exhaust side would make for a very responsive setup.

1. Cast Greddy or Edelbrock turbo manifold. Journal bearing GT2860 or GT2871R once I get a new CHRA for it
2. Custom tubular divided manifold. Evo 8 TD05HR-16G6. Billet compressor wheel, 32mm FIA restrictor ported compressor housing, Ported 10.5 single puck turbine housing.
Turbosmart IWG Actuator
PWR FMIC
2.5" Turbo intake pipe. filter outside of bay, basically a turbo cold air intake
2.5" Intercooler Piping (Hot and Cold)
Prof Sheepdog BOV, ARC R34 GT-R BOV, or uber JDM TBO BOV (I have quite a few options for a blow off valve lol)
3" downpipe
3" exhaust
Ceramic coating, heat wrap, reflective material where needed.

Fuel:

Walbro e85 compatible pump (I know people have used the 255 with e85)
New feed and return lines, 8an feed 6an return (e85 compatible material)
Billet aluminum anodized fuel rail (again, e85 compatibility)
External FPR
1000cc injectors (I figure that's enough injector for the goals on e85)

Ignition:

OEM distributor
Send-It-Racing ICM delete
Crane LX92 external coil (correct one IIRC)
External Ignition box brand TBD
External coil rotor & cap
NGK Blue plug wires
NGK Iridium plugs

Drivetrain:

Competition Clutch lightweight flywheel
Competition Clutch Stage 4 sprung clutch
InsaneShafts 500hp axles

Engine Management:

AEM 30-1000 EMS
NGK AFX or Innovative MTX-L wideband
3bar Map Sensor
GM IAT sensor
Denso/Greddy boost control solenoid

Some form of catch-can, atmospheric vent, non-drainback.

A lot of the things like the electronics, aem ems, blow off valves, turbos, gauges and such I just have laying around left over from previous projects, shop projects, personal collection, donations, etc. So in terms of cost it's really not that high for me to do what is listed above.

I haven't decided on a chassis yet, like I said right now this is really just a thought experiment. I have always had a soft spot for the 88-91 civics so if I could find a clean 4dr, hatch, or wagon I'd definitely toss this setup it in. Best part is emissions exemption.

With the Y8 block, crank, rods, and head the P29 pistons yield a static compression ratio of 12.64:1 at sea level. If you factor in my elevation, roughly 1100ft then the effective compression ratio drops to 12.42:1 under vacuum. I know that this static CR is more than safe with e85 and methanol injection.

I have 2 main concerns with the setup listed above...
1. Lifting the head
2. Stock sleeves

Everyone knows d series motors are notorious for lifting the head under high boost... toss in a high compression ratio and I'm not sure that ARPs alone wil keep the head clamped down. The other is the high cylinder pressures with stock sleeves... I'm afraid I could literally grenade a sleeve at that compression ratio on top of around 18-20psi.

If need be I can run PM3 D15B7 pistons and bring static down to 12.24:1, PG6 D16A1 pistons and bring static compression down to 12.22:1, or the PM6 D16A6 pistons and bring it down even lower to 10.34:1 static. Of course my concern with the non-vtec pistons is are the valve reliefs big enough? I know the P29/PM7 pistons have more than enough piston to valve clearance.

So thoughts, opinions, advice?
Fire away

B20VtecVillain

Sounds like it would be a fun built, especially in an old 4 door should be a bit of a rocket. My concern would be the stock sleeves. Tuning with a full EMS will allow you to get spot on with the maps. But with anything over 11:1 and that much boost I would definately be concerned with the life of the stock sleeves.
Definately post up some eventual results if you throw this thing together though!

underrated

iTrader: (3)

It hat much work in maybe look into using larger headbolt studs like some gsr ones. Different cam, is there a reason you want to go with delta? Just read not so good things about them. Rocket, colt, dd tech, crower?
Golden eagle cam.

Looks like it would be a lot of fun!

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

Rocket. Just no. I have a bag full of rocket b16 springs that broke during break in on a low load steady rpm run. obvious spring defect, rocket said punt.
Golden eagle doesn't make cams
Derek doesn't do sohc stuff IIRC
Crower doesn't have anything but mild na profiles
Colt eh
Bisimoto just moved over to billet cores since the cast chilled were snapping left and right. I'm good friend with Bisi but still don't want a cam snapping on me. Plus the delta 272-2 regrind is the same profile as the bisi 2.4 cam .

The length between b and d series headbolts/studs isn't even remotely close.

Oem y8 bolt on top
ARP LS stud on bottom

Natural Aspirations

$10 says you do absolutely nothing at all

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

I'm doing a lot of things. Just don't feel the need to tell the world every single decision I make or every action I take.

mar778c

iTrader: (1)

Ahh, Rocket's cam seems to work pretty well at least according to Furyof4's dyno.

Natural Aspirations

All I ever see is you talking about doing things and providing details on work that others have done.

Schister66

SHOTS FIRED!

turbohatch96y7

iTrader: (15)

hnoes:

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

Anyone else have thoughts on the stock sleeve issue?

B20VtecVillain

I definately don't see the stock sleeves holding up much past 300whp at that CR for any length of time. Personally I think you should sleeve the block and then let her rip, as a high comp boosted D that would actually take the power and love a while would make for a nasty little sleeper. My personal boosted D was on stock slugs and I ended up breaking a ringland before tearing up a stock sleeve, but I was expecting the sleeves to go every-time I took her to the track.

Natural Aspirations

Sleeves will be an issue long after the cast pistons

KevinEF7

I wouldnt mind seeing wantboost throw a project together myself, lots of knowledge, just need more real world application, and follow through

Natural Aspirations

PDN Pistons and Narrowed LS rods are likely the strongest OEM options available, and that's even a big risk.

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

My personal situation up until the last few months has prevented me from working on my own projects but I'm catching back up.

Here's a mini break down

09-12 I became the full-time in home caregiver for terminally ill cousin till he passed away September 2012 . He had ALS
October 2010 I was in a car accident that almost killed me. Brain bleed, traumatic brain injury, permanent memory loss, extensive spinal damage, etc.
April 2013 I had a house fire. We lived in a hotel for 6 weeks till welocated a rental house (that didn't have a garage) spent 16 months in the house till we moved again the end of last year.
June 2013 my mom broke both of her ankles and her back, she spent a week in the hospital paralyzed and
a another two weeks for spinal surgery recovery. I slept in the hospital all three weeks, took care ofher for a further 18 months.
July 2014 my aunt had brain surgery, twice. Once they removed her skull. She spent 6 months staying with us why while we both took care of her.

So you can see there was very little me time. I've had to let my civic and my s13 sit this entire time because I simply couldn't work on them to accomplish anything major, justlittle things here and there.

But back to the motor....

Plenty of people have made high numbers on the Nippon vitaras and the p29 pistonsuse the same castibg method. Nippon also states these will hold similar power. I doubt 300-350 will have anyeffect onthe pistons, especially with e85 and methanol injection. My only concern is cylinder pressures are either going to constantly lift the head or find a weak spot in the sleeves and at minimum crack a couple.

Other good news is I found and unpacked the forged rods and pistons for the lsvtec I'm building for the civic. Talked to my guy at the machine shop and he's fairly busy but hopefully soon he'll be able to do p2w for me. Other than that I'm having some oiling improvements done to the crank and thenthe bottom end will be together. Chassis still needs attention though.

The sad part is I've been able to help more people get their stuff done than my own lol .

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

Just for 300? I've seen people make almost 500 on vitaras and h beams.

Also I shouldn't have to turn this motor very high to make the power I want which *should* help with reliability and longevity. Also remember this motor won't be doing any fresh racing or things of that nature.

Part of me almost wants to try a smaller precision turbo (holy **** right? At least if I can have thesame reliability you've had) but maybe I would be better using it on the f22

Natural Aspirations

HP doesn't break parts
TQ breaks parts

This is why and how you see stock sleeve engines survive big numbers, big laggy turbos...
Increase the compression and reduce the lag and the TQ picks up at lower RPMs and stuff breaks.

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

That is true. I don't see this motor making much more than 280lbft. If need be I could use boost control to slow response by prematurely letting the gate open.

Natural Aspirations

280ftlbs = 373hp@7000RPM

225ftlbs = 300hp@7000RPM

I would pick turbo around your desired TQ and leave room for it to breathe up top

16g comes to mind

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

That's one I plan on running actually. The evo 4-8 "big" 16g flows about 42lb/min and the td05hr turbine wheel is more than capable of making the power I want. The twin scroll housing and divided manifold should help spool and makea nice flat torque curve .

I know the d series guys that run the Greddy td05h-18g have no problems making 380 or so with the restrictive Greddy manifold. So with a more efficient manifold design and downpipe design the 16g should be able to make 350 or a little more.

If I run the 34mm inlet restrictor compressor housing that came with the turbo (came off of a Rally America evo) it would slow response, increase torque production, and limit the power capabilities to the sub 400 mark. The question is in the decrease in response and time to build pressure significant enough to stop the extra torque from breaking things? I'll be picking up an unmodified open inlet housing to compare. Probably try to find a rally buddy that need a restrictor and sell it.

B20VtecVillain

I was running a GT2860rS and making right at 300hp on stock D16z6 internals. Just ARP head studs and rod bolts. Never had any problems with head lifting at that level. Sleeves and block never shower any signs of issues, and it ran for quite some time as a daily street car. Death of that engine ended up being broken ringlands.

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

300hp is a lot on stock rods. However you have to remember I'mtaking about a 12.64:1 static compressionmmotor that produces much much higher cylinder pressures than even a 10:1 motor . At20psi effective compression ratio is something like 25:1

underrated

iTrader: (3)

I meant Golden Eagle cam gear
DDtech, Crower, and Brian Crower all list a turbo cam for the d. I'd rather run those than a bisi or delta. Of course bisi has "new and improved" because of all the issues he had previously. I doubt if it's any difference. Weren't his previous SOHC cam billet?

I'm sure arp could whip you up a set of larger head studs in the correct length.
Is a CSS block not an option?

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

Eh CSS will just put the stress in a different part of the sleeve. I meanI could try it and go 75.5 sinceyou have to increase the bore size after their process but then you're talking about a static compression of 12.75:1.

ARP could probably make larger diameter studs but it's a matter of will the block and head support largerstuds . There isn't a lot of material around the holes in the block and withthe head the stock 14mm bolts are already a tight fit. I doubt you'd be able to get a socket over a larger diameter nut in two or three bolt locations.

I'll ask Derek about a d cam. Nice thing about the delta cam is it's cheap. This would be a bullshit project for the most part. As long as it makes the power I want and how I want I could care less.