radioren

so Im getting ready to turbo. very mild boost.not much just enuff to see what its like to put a turbo together and give the daily driver lil pep. I have 450cc injectors and know you have to have some kinda ecu to controll them but i was going with the FMU set up. and already put inthe high flow msd fuel pump and watching everything with boost,sir/fuel and oil pressure gague. why is an FMU not a good idea to start with when going buget boost low psi? Is it reliability? Tunning? There are many ppl from my reasearch that have used it with success and of course others with none. Just wanted opions from all

b16hybridsol

FMU + dsm 450s = rich as hell. Fmus have a bad rep because they make the amount of fuel from each injector pulse less accurate because of the crazy high fuel pressure.. but i think of a low boost app. you can get away with one

Dunc

Because simply put, tuning is more precise (hondata, uberdata, AEM, whatever) than an FMU can ever dream of getting. Tuning is better and will definitely get you alot more power.

Scott_Tucker

FMU's are also a mechanical device and therefore are more prone to calibration issues or mechanical failure.

Tad

yeah,
an fmu is cool imo for low boost budget applications,
because along with being dirt cheap, they're also so easy to install.
just plug the fuel lines and vacuum to it and ur golden.

but in the longrun, and higher boost, if that mechanical fmu ever craps out on ur..
ur screwed. And it subjects your fuel system to incredibly high(100+psi) pressures,
which can crap out your injectors. With more fuel the psi will go so high that you'll need
an aftermarket fuel pump to keep things flowing..
and in that case you might as well just buy some bigger injectors and run uberdata or something. it'd be the same price.

b18cx

Have seen injectors crack due to the pressure created from running a FMU

RACEPAK

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by b18cx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Have seen injectors crack due to the pressure created from running a FMU</TD></TR></TABLE>

integlspwr2k

iTrader: (3)

as long as its low boost apps a fmu is fine.

nsxmatt

I ran mine over a year with no problems. Just put the car on a dyno to check the a/f, don't run insane amounts of boost, retard the timing, and get some colder plugs and you'll be fine. If you have the money though upgrade to a hondata. It is well worth it. The time in my sig was run on a fmu and stock injectors btw.

radioren

Ive already installed the MSD inline fuel pump adn FMU. Got and a/f gauge,got ngk colder running plugs,intercooler,retard timming when i install so Im all square. I also have the 450cc dsm blue top injectors but not installed since I understand that it will cause my engine to flood when idle...hence the FMU for now. PLus Im tryin to understand tunning....how to,specifics,what do i need,do i need a laptop,what to adjust,who to rechip something? etc etc I have another ECU (that i tried to put an IC socket in myself and think i messed up! lol) with a socket. TO rechip something i guess thats all one would need..is that tunning the ecu to change the pulse width etc? And what tables to use...see, lots of stuff to understand but im searchin and learnin! lol
btw this is on a b20a motor (88 lude) i know i know build the internals first.....when the motor goes which it will once boosted then i start inside out and push more and more...then tunning...thanks to all teaching a tuner and import newbie a thing or two...still open to ANY advice

b16hybridsol

it sounds like you are looking more for tuning basics and theorys. Honestly you are going to have to use the search button, because there is way to much information to put into just one thread

radioren

yeah i have been using search to understand tunning so i can decide with knowledge what to use when time comes. Im not too interested in theory i just want to know what i need for my app. It seems that there is nothing for my 88 B20 motor boosted none the less. Even the archives are empty and i know its b/c of the motors drawbacks itself. Lke I said im looking for example someone says use uberdata.....ok fine...why and what exactly do i do....if its even for my app. Ive seen most say a hack is a good way to go and not droping loads of money if your not going for crazy a$$ numbers.

Tad

search for topics on tuning, uberdata, boost, etc,

you wont find jack hunting for something related to your exact setup.

radioren

im starting to realize that its hard to find specific info. thanks for the heads up. if anyone has opinions and have done or tried a set up like im talkin about lemme know. ANY info would be appreciated

jeremyG2teg

&lt;----- three years at 8psi of boost on the same stock injectors(w/220k miles on them), in-line fuel pump and 12:1 FMU.

All this was done without a single issue what-so-ever in the entire three years.

Running a propper FMU set-up can be effective. But only if you just use sound judgement and restrain yourself from upping the boost too high.

no greed = no worries

radioren

sounds like what im about to run. what kinda set up do you have? Im just lookin for lil more power and to fool with turbo so i can do the next project the right way!

adseguy

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by radioren &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">sounds like what im about to run. what kinda set up do you have? Im just lookin for lil more power and to fool with turbo so i can do the next project the right way!</TD></TR></TABLE>

If you want to fool around with you car (in a good way) really look into Uberdata...it lets you do the tunning and is a great way to understand how everything comes together in a car. Plus you can use more boost once you feel like it and are confident in your engien. You CAN NOT up the boost with FMU because the fuel pressure will be too excesive. Uberdata is dirt cheap too. Only about $125 to geet going. You will also need a wideband to monitor A/F's for a nice street tune (highly recommended) so that's about $300. All in all though it sounds like you want to learn so to you. Read up on Uberdata I'm sure you'll like it and it's prolly the right match for you

nsxmatt

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by adseguy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
You CAN NOT up the boost with FMU because the fuel pressure will be too excesive. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Not true, the FMU won't keep making more fuel pressure past a point. I've run 11 and hitting 12psi on the FMU and this on stock base timing. The only thing that bothers me about the FMU is the fact you can't control the timing and your limited on accurate control of your fuel in high boost.

One thing to remember is you see tons of threads everyday with people who blow their car up with Hondata and other "real" fuel systems and not as many with FMU's. Hondata is a great tool and is safe as long as you know what your doing but it is very easy to blow your car up, more so that letting the fmu and your stock computer control the fuel in a low boost application.

Tad

yep, fmu's are a lowend fuel management system,
good for dummies, non advanced users, with a non advanced setup.
you can't set it "wrong"..
but then it doesnt give you the ability to tune it to the next level either.

adseguy

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nsxmatt &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Not true, the FMU won't keep making more fuel pressure past a point. I've run 11 and hitting 12psi on the FMU and this on stock base timing. The only thing that bothers me about the FMU is the fact you can't control the timing and your limited on accurate control of your fuel in high boost.

One thing to remember is you see tons of threads everyday with people who blow their car up with Hondata and other "real" fuel systems and not as many with FMU's. Hondata is a great tool and is safe as long as you know what your doing but it is very easy to blow your car up, more so that letting the fmu and your stock computer control the fuel in a low boost application. </TD></TR></TABLE>

WOAH! hold on a second. I understand the FMU won't deliver more fuel at a certain point but that certain point is 1.) a VERY high pressure on your injectors...10PSI thats 42+10*12=162PSI!!!! 2.) if you don't give more fuel and keep upping the boost, arn't you going to run lean or if not that means you are running pig rich in lower boost!! either way it's bad. WOW i'm still in awe at 12PSI on FMU though, I've never heard that on a honda---mustang yes...but not honda

radioren

hey thanks and for the props. Yeah I wanna learn other than listening to what bodykit joe has to say! lol I was jsut lookin for specifics to chipping what to do etc. I have been reading up on uber and it seems you have to truly understand what the numbers in the tables mean and all about adjusting them and how. I was doing this as a looooow budget set up. So far im under 1000 with an a/f,oil press,boost gauge,fmu,msd fuel pump,trubo mani,turbo (ihi t3),greddy type-s BOV,side mount IC,IC piping,silicone conn,stealmode oil kit (props) and vac lines. Like i said this is a low budget boost for me to learn on a very high mileage engine (compress fine etc). When it goes then doin it right. From what i read u have more chances of blowing motor up with uber etc if yournot too familiar with it.

adseguy

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by radioren &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">From what i read u have more chances of blowing motor up with uber etc if yournot too familiar with it.</TD></TR></TABLE>

HAHA yep.....you can blow it easier <U>IF</U> you don't know what you are doing. The numbers in the fuel map tell you how long the duration of the injector stays open...the larger the number the more the fuel. The numbers in the ignition tell you when the spark will go Before TDC. Notice the 16 degrees in idle. It's not that hard...you just click 2 buttons to make a base map then take her for a pull on the street....watch your A/F's...if they are too high add some fuel using the + button on the bottom..if it's too rich take out some fuel.....I started really slow and it took about 2-3 hours on the street to figure out that taking out 1% of fuel didn't do much, but 10% does. Now I can street tune a car in under 1.5 hours!

Under $1000

jeremyG2teg

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tad &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yep, fmu's are... good for dummies, non advanced users, with a non advanced setup. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Haha, or they could be for people that don't have the resources at hand for tuning. Someone that wants a reliable low boost maintenance free "set it and forget it" system. Or even a person that has a complex fully built setup that is "taking a brake" from the troubles and tribulations of building a turbo car and would rather have fun with what has he acheived thus far... and is content with that.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by radioren &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">sounds like what im about to run. what kinda set up do you have?</TD></TR></TABLE>

'91 Integra /'97 B18B
full OBD-1 conversion (all installed by me)

Head: (assembled by KG)
Porting and polishing by KG
Ferera volves (w/all the trimings) and retainers
web-cam dual valve springs
Skunk2 intake manifold

Block: (assembled by me)
Benson step-deck ductile iron sleeves
JE 8.5:1 GSR pistons
Crower Rods
Nitride treated crank

Turbo:
T3/T4OB 57 trim stage 3 wheel
Full-Race manifold
35mm Tial w/open dump tube (fabricated by me)
3" stainless downpipe (fabricated by me) to 3" thermal
2 1/4" intercooling piping (fabricated by me)
Sparko intercooler (the standard one that comes with the drag kit)
HKS BOV

How is that for a "dummy, non advanced user, with a non advanced setup"?

So just to reiterate....
For a low boost turbo setup, FMUs work just fine.

nsxmatt

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by adseguy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

WOAH! hold on a second. I understand the FMU won't deliver more fuel at a certain point but that certain point is 1.) a VERY high pressure on your injectors...10PSI thats 42+10*12=162PSI!!!! 2.) if you don't give more fuel and keep upping the boost, arn't you going to run lean or if not that means you are running pig rich in lower boost!! either way it's bad. WOW i'm still in awe at 12PSI on FMU though, I've never heard that on a honda---mustang yes...but not honda</TD></TR></TABLE>

Most you'll see is about 120-130psi. Not saying that is great but consider many people run this for years with no problems. You won't run pig rich in lower to no boost because your still on stock injectors and stock ECU which can do a fine job of controlling the car the 99% of the time you don't use the FMU. It's not like your running around with 120psi line pressure all the time, only when in full boost. Yes you are at your limits on higher boost though.

Like was said above, the FMU works great with people who like myself didn't have access to Hondata and the abilty to tune. Driving 300 miles on a basemap to get to a dyno who has the abilty to tune it was also not a option. I had great success with the FMU and now that our shop has bought the Hondata dealer pack and has a dyno with wideband I will tune with the Hondata which is on my car now.

rjardy

As previously stated, an FMU is fine for low boost setups. Jeremy's car has been running the same FMU for 3 years. The reason the car has not blown up is due to the fact that the FMU is used correctly. Whoever said that FMU's were good for dummy's with limited setups is ........well ..........ignorant. If anything, an FMU should be kept away from dummys. There is many members of this board who are proof of that. Countless people have grenaded their cars while running FMU due to numerous factors, such as,to much boost, limited maintenance, limited knowledge leading the pact by far...

Flat out, the FMU has been around for years, longer than most of you, and has been used succesfully for just as many years.


Regards,
Robert