mike1114

iTrader: (1)

After reading some posts on HI horsepower setups gaining over 50whp by just adjusting cams, I've noticed that most tuners DO NOT tune cams, why?

I've had my car tuned by Secret Services, Titan, CFT and Mase and not one time have they ever touched my cam gears. I've made a remark or two before but they just kinda danced around the issue and changed topics.

Is there some special secret code word to tell them, like New England Clam Chowder!! Now if I can only remember......the red or the white????

tony1

Because gains are usually minimal and you're usually paying by the hour. It's usually not worth the time/money if you're paying $150+/hr. 50hp is definitely not a normal gain unless you're adjusting the intake cam and not resetting the timing...

00-itr

on my previous setups, i gained about 10 whp after messing with them for quite awhile. and that was on a upper 500 whp setup

unless the deck height or the head has been milled, doubt its gonna do much

beepy

If you ordered a good cam profile to begin with there should be no need to adjust them.

yee SERIOUS

iTrader: (1)

what's the point of cam gears then? lol i can't even imagine what to set them at for a starting point?

0Synapse Motorsport

We always adjust cam gears and on a turbo car usually see a 10-15 whp gain, for only 15 minutes of work is deff worth it.

tony1

You might make a guess at cam gear adjustments and get 2 pulls in, in 15minutes, but you're defnitely not trying very many things in 15 minutes. When it comes down to it, 90% of the time you're tuning to a safe number for the given setup and you can get there with boost alone. So run 15psi and make the number you're looking for, or spend an extra 30 minutes at least and make the same number at 14psi?

Toda Party

iTrader: (2)

another thing is, if u take too many pulls too close together, ur running the motor hot, the block starts to get heat soaked, so even if it DOES make more power, the graph can "trick" u cuz the motor is heat soaked and register say 5 whp lower...but hey ur time, ur money lol.

look at the variation on a STOCK b20

Blue line = first pull after driving to the dyno, no ventilation fans in the dyno room on.

Green = is with the fans on in the dyno room and maybe a 5 min cool down

Red = Fans on, ~15 min cool down

integlspwr2k

iTrader: (3)

you can gain up to 20whp on cam gear tuning. to me its the last step on getting the most power out of your setup and btw you need to tune it on a dyno which cost money.

0Synapse Motorsport

Tony1,

iam talking about those who are hard on time, 15 minutes is not going to give you alot of tries to tune cam gears your right, but when your not hard on time, either have your own dyno or willing to pay, i think its worth it, and alot of us, charge a flat rate to tune cars, so I see it as part of the fee.


Modified by Synapse Motorsport at 7:26 PM 5/31/2006

tony1

Again, 90% of the time you can get the power you're looking for w/o the gears. I'm not saying you should never adjust them, just saying why most people don't bother. To do it right, it's a pretty time consuming process.

SOHC_MShue

Definately worth it if you are looking for every last bit of horsepower at a certain boost level. I'm sure most tuners dont have a problem doing them, but like said before its very time consuming so if you want them adjusted then you need to be willing to pay for the additional time.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Toda Party &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">another thing is, if u take too many pulls too close together, ur running the motor hot, the block starts to get heat soaked, so even if it DOES make more power, the graph can "trick" u cuz the motor is heat soaked and register say 5 whp lower...but hey ur time, ur money lol.

look at the variation on a STOCK b20
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yea heatsoak makes rediculous changes in power. Cooldowns between runs are necessary. Always try to start pulls around the same ECT.

cuin9sec

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Again, 90% of the time you can get the power you're looking for w/o the gears. I'm not saying you should never adjust them, just saying why most people don't bother. To do it right, it's a pretty time consuming process.</TD></TR></TABLE>

shooting for 800whp...im still on stock cam gears...

boostfeen

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SOHC_MShue &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Definately worth it if you are looking for every last bit of horsepower. I'm sure most tuners dont have a problem doing them, but like said before its very time consuming so if you want them adjusted then you need to be willing to pay for the additional time.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

IMO, its not worth the extra time on a boosted car. You can just make up the difference in power by turning up the boost. BUt in an all motor car where your trying to extract every last bit of power, then i think its worth it.

SOHC_MShue

Yea i guess it just depends if you want bragging rights for power at a certain boost level or if you are maxing the turbo out and need even more power.

nowtype

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You might make a guess at cam gear adjustments and get 2 pulls in, in 15minutes, but you're defnitely not trying very many things in 15 minutes. When it comes down to it, 90% of the time you're tuning to a safe number for the given setup and you can get there with boost alone. So run 15psi and make the number you're looking for, or spend an extra 30 minutes at least and make the same number at 14psi?</TD></TR></TABLE>


What about gains in the midrange? You wont get that by increasing boost pressure. If anything they will drop slightly.

http://forums.evans-tuning.com...+gear

I think that gain is worth the $200 for new gears and the extra dyno time if you are really spending time and money on your setup. There is no way to adjust the turbo pressure to gain 10ft lbs while the turbo spools.

tony1

There are always oddball situations where you can have the wrong cam in the car and cam gears will make a big difference. From my experience, most of the time there's not much power there. VERY rarely will there be 30+hp there unless the ignition timing is not reset every time. I picked up 12hp on my race car with cam gear adjustments, and it took a good hour to tune them.

Mase

and u guys forget this as well.

most people dont have their side cover cut. so you'd have to either have a spare valve cover, or take it on and off each time. huge pain.

mike i probably told you, what i tell most people "i dont mind messing with them if you want to spend the time and money, but you probably wont gain all that much"


id also venture to say, on probably 40-50% of the cars i do, they wont make any gains worth keeping.

Archidictus

Mechanical cam timing on a Honda is exactly like it is on every other automobile, pushrod, overhead or otherwise: time consuming but literally free power if you have the facilities to do it safely.

And yes - all the FI tuners are correct about being able to bump psi up another point and get the same peak change as you can with cam tuning, but the midrange and low end will not be there like it will be with the mechanical cam changes. Period. If you want the most out of a given setup at a particular boost level, cam timing adjustment can help considerably.

However. The tuning gods are also correct in statements about proper cam profiling. If the cam(s) is/are done right in the first place, adjustment will net results that won't be quite the monitary investment that clicking the boost controller up another notch will be.

tony1

You can talk about "all the midrange power", but in reality there is very little most of the time. I speak from A LOT of experience with honda motors. I can't say for other motors, but most honda motors will pick up very little at any rpm point. Have you seen otherwise in more than a few situations?

92cxturbo

what do you mean by reset the timing?

dscivicdx

so should i sell the skunk2 cam gears that i was going to be putting on next weekend? they were going on with a new head before i throw my kit on.

JDogg

what tony said

purpleh22

So - same with exhaust tailpipe size? Hell with paying to replace the 2", Just turn up the boost and save money over the mandrel bent 3"? & don't bother buying aftermarket cams, just turn up the boost? Why bother with porting?
Well maybe there are some significant differences between these and tuning cam timing. - - - but- - - -
If I spent over 10K for a built turbo setup, a few hundred dollars might not seem like much.

boosted k20

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 92cxturbo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">what do you mean by reset the timing?</TD></TR></TABLE>


what he means is that everytime u adjust the cam gears, it affects the ignition timing by the distributor. u need ot reset timing by the dizzy with a timing light everytime u make changes to the cam gears.

i have tuned quite a few hondas over the past 2 years and tuning cam gears is very time consumming and i have seen minimal gains from them. plus like Mase said, if the valve cover is not cut then try n to tune cam gears is gonna be hell.