degradated

Just sort of curious here. This seems to be the trend in dyno testing I've seen. At the same boost level, the B18B will tend to produce at least 10 ft/lbs of torque more than the B18C (obviously the latter of the two will have the more hp)....

What is the reason for this?

VaporTrail

displacement.

LSturboHB

simple the LS has more torque to begin with than the GSR.

HP is nothing without Torque

D-SPEED

is that ~2 CI really making 10 ft/lbs though ?

degradated

Ok, you could say that a LS has more torque to begin with, but it doesn't. The GSR has 1 more ft/lb of peak torque stock. You could say that the LS "feels" more torquey because it has more torque at a lower rpm, but I am asking why a boosted LS will have more peak torque than a boosted GSR.

And I thought about the displacement thing too, but it is only a 37cc difference. Does that really account for the big torque difference?

Smashback

No 37cc doesn't account for the big torque difference. I would bet though that'd be something that could be tuned into perspective with a pair of cam gears. Then again what does my single cam having *** know?

falcongsr

I bet the different intake manifold design has something to do with it.

JM Performance

Doesn't the gsr have cam overlap in the higher RPMs? Could this account for the lower torque?

DIRep972

iTrader: (1)

could have something to do with the rode/stroke ratio but i dunno

Zeus

...glad someone finally started to hit it... the stroke of 89.0mm vs (GSR)87.2mm... and I'm sure that is only one small reason...


[Modified by Zeus, 4:33 PM 12/25/2001]

Etylorcen

Yup longer stroke will make more power...but the b18b's rod/stroke ratio keeps it from revvin' high.

Evil DOHC

All the comments are sort of correct. But lets look at it from a drag racers' perspective. Torque doesn't win the race, PURE HORSEPOWER DOES. Also since a gsr has more compression it will always end up pulling up top on a turbo ls with thesame amount of boost.
EVIL

DIRep972

iTrader: (1)

now who would win between an LS and GSR with the same hp.. LS has longer gearing and much more torque in this case but the GSR has closer ratio gears but higher RPMs which will help up top..

Zeus

...wrong...

PureTeg420

yeah most of that statement is garbage. Hey degredated, look up some dyno charts, the ls is gonna have more like 30 more lb-ft not 10, assuming stock internals and same psi/turbo


[Modified by PureTeg420, 6:45 PM 12/25/2001]

cyan1de

that comment is complete and utter bullshit. now to give a quote from the famous racer Carol Shelby:

"Horsepower sells cars. Torque wins races."

civicdragon

hp is defined as the rate at which torque can be produced. torque and hp both go hand in hand so high hp low torque no go, high torque low hp, no go... so if the ls has 10ft/lb more of torque but 30 less hp, the gsr will win because it can use that torque faster.

HXMan

Hmm....the longer stroke of 89mm does allow the expaning combustion gasses to put force on the piston for a longer time.

Also, cam design perhaps? Less duration and less overlap.

Also, it is known that the LS head flows less CFM then a b18c head. I am assuming smaller ports are the cause for this, and smaller ports will yield higher air speed, meaning less low rpm torque.

Eventually as rpms increase, and the amount of air needing to be moved increases, the b18c pulls ahead.

Evil DOHC

How many of you just believe in dyno numbers? This statement is with past experience. An LS WILL NOT BE FASTER than a gsr with thesame amount of boost. I been street and track (drag) racing for over 7 years. Dyno numbers don't always mean anything. When it comes to comparing two similar engines it is hard. Any of u got an ls with a basic kit that wants to race my stock internaled gsr?
EVIL

civicdragon

relax evil, noone said that the ls would beat the gsr with equal amounts of boost, everyone knows that already.

DIRep972

iTrader: (1)

No one said the LS is faster becuase it has more torque.. they were simply pointing out that it makes more torque at the same boost.. now lets say both motors are makin the same hp at different boost levels.. LS making gobs more torque.. who will win in this case?

also I have raced my friends GSR on the same boost.. we are making about the same torque and hes making an extra 40hp.. dont know if it was purely driver but I was in the lead 1st, kept the lead through 2nd.. and then he pulled on me in 3rd.. 4th he pulls on me scary hard.. one RH LS, one Drag 3 GSR.. both at 7psi


[Modified by DIRep972, 3:34 AM 12/26/2001]

civicdragon

equal hp, equal weight, the car with more torque or course

Evil DOHC

Sounds like a good race. But we both know that nobody has traction
atleast 1-2nd in a drag/revhard/fshit/ equiped teg. The reason he pulls on u is because the GSR has crazzy top end and thats what will matter in a race occasionally. Everybody including me went off topic on this one. As a drag racer I feel that it is important to have lots of USABLE horsepower. U will be staying 1000 rpm to 4000 only a second or so of the race. So downlow torque will not help u out whatsoever. After that its 5,000 and up. Most of the time even on slicks yoru car will not even see traction in the downlow rpm range.
EVIL

AlphaKennyWun

Civic dragon hit it on the nose.............torque and horsepower have to be in relation to each other. 4cyl cars dont need too much torque to push it down the 1/4 mile because they dont weigh ****.....

paulzy

iTrader: (1)

I don't really have any insight on this, but damn. This is why I built an Ls/vtec instead of a b16...if money permitted, I would've went the gsr route though