iBrandon

I just got done rebuilding my b18c1 engine for boost. Its completely fully built, rods, pistons, sleeves etc...Currently its running N/A, stock ecu and stock injectors for now until i get my turbo parts completed! Bore size 81.5.

Car has lil over 3000 miles...I was losing alot of oil at the begining around 1000k miles or so...that was due to the Crank seal on the oil pump...it was leaking, so i fixed that! Well it drove fine for the next couple of weeks, then i started to notice the oil pressure has been droping gradually day by day...not much..but a little...i didnt think of it to much...THen today it got really low...and i had to check it out...

Popped my hood, pulled the stick...and it drew No oil on the stick...maybe just barely on the very tip...I was shocked as hell! Where did my oil go???? THeres not a single drip or leak on the engine...

The exhuast is clear, doesnt pollute black, blue or white...A/F is 14.7 when cruising and idle...i dont understand...Im going to do a compression check tomarrow and possibly a leak down too....I hope my rings are not shot!

I broke the motor in using the hard method or motoman's method! Took it out on the highway...floored and deceled....floored it...decel etc...like the infamous write up told me to...Car pulls strong...i dont feel any powerloss....Also im using a endyne catch can as well...but i doubt one-two quarts of oil would be trapped in that...

Anyone experience anything like this???? Any insight would be helpful...i hope i dont have to tear the dam thing down again...just to change the rings! The motor doesnt even have 5k on it...


Modified by iBrandon at 6:40 AM 4/7/2006

Mr. Vapor

check your turbo seals? (check your charge pipes)

any drips under the car?

96 GSR-T

Mr. Vapor....read the first line carefully........he is currently running N/A.

I have the exact same setup as you Sleeved 81.5 running stock injectors etc for the break-in.....where is this thread that told you to beat the **** out of it to break it in? I would never ever for the life of me and alot would also agree with me to take it easy at least the first 50-100 miles to make sure everything is kosher. There have been some problems with the Endyn filling up, I would at least check it out, other than that I dont know what else to tell you

iBrandon

I got advice from motoman's article....

http://mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

Its suppose to seal your rings in properly....But if my rings are shot which i hope they are not...then im gonna have second thoughts about the next break in....gonna do compression check after school..

Mr. Vapor

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 96 GSR-T &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Mr. Vapor....read the first line carefully........he is currently running N/A.</TD></TR></TABLE>

D'oh! i just assumed he was FI since its the FI forum, didnt read carefully enough

96 GSR-T

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mr. Vapor &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

D'oh! i just assumed he was FI since its the FI forum, didnt read carefully enough</TD></TR></TABLE>

Its no biggie, I do it all the time and get promptly corrected for it, just thought I would share the same response's that I get

drintegra

did you look under the car to make sure it was not leaking? Take a white napkin and lightly rub you rear bumper above your exhaust to see if it is black, althoug I doubt it will leak that much oil out the exhaust and you would not notice. I did hear about the Motoman breakin process and people are split on this topic. do you have a AF meter to determine your ratio? Did you tune before you went out an beat on it cause he does say the best place to tune is on the Dyno. Recheck everything to make sure you are not leaking oil cause that is alot of oil to be burning through the rings and you have not noticed. Good luck

iBrandon

Now that i come to think of it...there is a slight blackish haze on my back bumper...

coneheadsracing

haze is not likely oil, as much carbon. Check your catch can. If your not blowing a ton of smoke chances are you don't have an issue with rings. Your sure it was filled up properly? Since its a fresh build, your oil is likely very clean, make sure your looking at the underside of your car for the oil, not just on the ground.

BoostGoneWild

What kind of oil are you using to brake in the motor?

drintegra

A;though the black haze can be carbon it is most likely oil. If he was running a straight pipe and no resonator maybe he would get a strong haze, but with his issues he needs to consider everything. Also, under your car is where you need to check for the oil. But since you have a fresh rebuild remember that you will require more oil after the overhaul and consequently maybe low on oil due to this. I would definately change the oil since it is time any way. Put the car on a flat suface and measure. You need to monitor this and your mileage to determine if you do infact have an issue.

MidShipCivic

Sit there and rev the **** out of your car, do you see blue smoke? Does it burn your nostrils?

iBrandon

ok i did a compression check today...did 4 test on each cylinder....the outcomes are...

Cylinder 1: 220, 215, 225, 225
Cylinder 2: 225, 225, 224, 222
Cylinder 3: 228, 229, 229, 228
Cylinder 4: 220, 220, 220, 220

Keep in mind this is a GSR with 9:8 je pistons! Seems to me the compression is ok....Should i go ahead and do leak down also??? I dont have the tool, so i would need to purchase one...But overall it looks good..i dont know..Im using Valvoline 10w-30 oil (nonsynthetic)...

Also here is pictures of my bumper...the car is dirty...hadnt washed it yet...its been raining..but gives you idea






And also the plugs! the plugs look healthy and the color they should be...

Plug 1



Plug 2



Plug 3



Plug 4




I did an oil change when i changed out my crank oil seal! had to haha...But yeh i double checked the engine bay and underneath...i went ahead and tightn all the hex bolts on my moroso pan(The new stock style type) just in case...I appreciate everyone helping me so far and i hope to find the source of this oil dissapearance!


Modified by iBrandon at 4:49 PM 4/7/2006

coneheadsracing

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by drintegra &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">A;though the black haze can be carbon it is most likely oil. If he was running a straight pipe and no resonator maybe he would get a strong haze, but with his issues he needs to consider everything. Also, under your car is where you need to check for the oil. But since you have a fresh rebuild remember that you will require more oil after the overhaul and consequently maybe low on oil due to this. I would definately change the oil since it is time any way. Put the car on a flat suface and measure. You need to monitor this and your mileage to determine if you do infact have an issue. </TD></TR></TABLE>

HOw does oil make it out your exhaust? Am i being blonde, i mean it would burn up and be smoke. Black on the bumper is carbon/suit, exhaust whatever you want to call it, but oil. Looks like my bumper, i don't have oil issues.

HOw much oil do you put in your pan? I know with my aftermarket canton pan, turbo lines, and oil cooler, i put in around 5.5 at least. Also, check it after you run it for a bit, and let it cool, as your filter will soak up some too.

Hybrid96EK

Leak down test will really show how well those rings are sealing. Ta hell with compression tests. If there was oil in the chamber anyways, it would "seal" the rings and provide good compression results anyways. A leak down will show you if you truely have an issue.

SOHCD16y8

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by iBrandon &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I got advice from motoman's article....

http://mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

Its suppose to seal your rings in properly....But if my rings are shot which i hope they are not...then im gonna have second thoughts about the next break in....gonna do compression check after school.. </TD></TR></TABLE>
I doubt it had anything to do with the hard break-in. I always give my motors 5 miles to warm up and check for leaks, then push them pretty hard for the next 100 miles or so. Ive does this on about 4 Honda motors and 1 small block chevy.

SOHC_MShue

Damn i can relate with the leaking crank seal. I replaced it and 2 days later it was leaking again....i just said expletive it now and replace oil as needed

turbotime

well since ur not FI my guess would be something in the head. Like valveseals or something. If you got no drips then oil is somehow leakin past ur valves/rings and getting into the combustion chamber. Thats the ONLY way you can be losing oil unless its visibly dripping out.

I suggest leakdown, my guess would be valve seals, headgakset.

Hybrid96EK

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turbotime &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">well since ur not FI my guess would be something in the head. Like valveseals or something. If you got no drips then oil is somehow leakin past ur valves/rings and getting into the combustion chamber. Thats the ONLY way you can be losing oil unless its visibly dripping out.

I suggest leakdown, my guess would be valve seals, headgakset.</TD></TR></TABLE>

1). Valve don't have "seals"... They "Seal" against the seat.
2). Valves do have STEM SEALS which is most likely what you are talking about.
3). A leak down test will not show if stem seals were bad or not.

iBrandon

I will be doing a leak down test today and i will post results...how would u check for stem seals???

turbotime

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hybrid93Eg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">1). Valve don't have "seals"... They "Seal" against the seat.
2). Valves do have STEM SEALS which is most likely what you are talking about.
3). A leak down test will not show if stem seals were bad or not.</TD></TR></TABLE>

good to know, ok my guess is the valve stem seals

iBrandon

Also...wouldnt the afr reading be richer if i was burning oil??? when cruising im at 14.7-15.0 and around 14.7 give or take at idle....in theory if was burning such large amounts of oil...my afr would read dead rich and be smoking black *** smoke out the exhuast....But it can also be burning so minimal that it doesnt effect the afr at all??? this is over 800-1000 miles since i last put oil in it and noticed oil lost...

Hybrid96EK

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by iBrandon &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I will be doing a leak down test today and i will post results...how would u check for stem seals???</TD></TR></TABLE>

If the seals are leaking bad enough to use the amount of oil you described, you would see a pretty obvious cloud of blue smoke when you fired up the car every morning. Another way you can also check is removing the intake manifold and checking the stems.

Hybrid96EK

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by iBrandon &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Also...wouldnt the afr reading be richer if i was burning oil??? when cruising im at 14.7-15.0 and around 14.7 give or take at idle....in theory if was burning such large amounts of oil...my afr would read dead rich and be smoking black *** smoke out the exhuast....But it can also be burning so minimal that it doesnt effect the afr at all??? this is over 800-1000 miles since i last put oil in it and noticed oil lost...</TD></TR></TABLE>

It would smoke blue, not black. Remember, you can add/subtract any amount of fuel to get your a/f ratio on target. That doesn't mean something else isn't still fouling up the mix. In theroy, if you had the oil in there, and the reading was rich, you could simply remove fuel until you had the correct ratio as displayed on the wideband. The oil is still in there, and indeed you are actually running less fuel then you should be, but the oil is fouling up the reading on the wideband. Widebands are great tools, but you can't say they are 100% for reasons like I just explained. If you were loosing a 1-2 quarts of oil in 1,000 miles past the rings, it should be smoking a good deal. Are you 100% sure there isn't a leak... PCV system working as designed, etc?

iBrandon

Ok i did a leak down test...I made my own gauge and forgot to put a cutoff valve in b/w the gauge and auctuator...but i was able to still put air into the cylinders...100 psi...i just dont knwo how much exactly what percentage its leaking...but i checked all the vents (exhuast, oil cap, throttle body, and radiator) not a single whoosh! i couldnt feel a dam puff of air...so i dunno!

Maybe i was smokin the day i changed my oil and only put 3 qaurts...which i doubt haha...i dunno ill keep an eye on the oil level and check periodically on the milage and oil consumption....

Ill do another check again when i get that cutoff valve so i know how much exactly im leaking....im still puzzled though! haha....