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What's needed for a 400whp D Series?

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Old 10-09-2007, 07:04 PM
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Default What's needed for a 400whp D Series?

Whats the recipe for a 400WHP Daily Driver D Series Engine?
Old 10-09-2007, 07:13 PM
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Old 10-09-2007, 07:15 PM
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Default Re: What's needed for a 400whp D Series? (sikciv666)

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Great answer that about sums it up. Seriously though search, there's a huge SOHC thread.
Old 10-09-2007, 07:19 PM
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a 400hp B-series towing it around town or in the trunk of a 400hp car powered by a Bseries.
Old 10-09-2007, 07:33 PM
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Default Re: (paulzy)

why b series
Old 10-09-2007, 07:37 PM
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Default Re: (b16a4)

http://turbod16.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=38958

just the basics
Old 10-09-2007, 09:02 PM
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Default Re: What's needed for a 400whp D Series? (sikciv666)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sikciv666 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"></TD></TR></TABLE>
x3
Old 10-09-2007, 10:00 PM
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Posted by keto06

I am currently doing a 400+ D build and would like to share my research with you all. I would recommend everyone read the COMPLETE Guide to turbo charging your Honda on H-T, as it helped me A LOT.

First of all is the block. With a good tune, a rod/piston/ARP head stud motor is all you need to keep your block together. The most common blocks are the y8 and the z6 blocks. Most people go with Eagle/Scat or TT HBeam Rods with ARP 2000 rod bolts, combined with CP, Wiseco or Vitara Pistons. Block posts are cheap and are what I will be using, which add strength to the block. The only block guard I would recommend is the GE block guard as it allows adequate coolant levels to the head, which leads me to my next point. It is also recommended that your change the timing belt/water pump and even oil pump when you rebuild the block. For a z6 setup, the OEM oil pump is fine, for a y8 setup the stock y8 pump needs to either be modified or substituted for a Toda Oil Pump, since the z6 will not line up. A full head gasket set is also recommended. In this respect I recommend a genuine OEM set, or a complete set with a Cometic or SCE head gasket. Also a change of spark plug wires (OEM or NGK), spark plugs (99% of people recommend the NGK BKR7E), distributor cap and rotor.

Secondly, the head is the place where power is made. However, from what I’ve seen, a z6 head can hit 400whp stock. I would recommend the Zex 59300 cam though, as it has shown to help tremendously. For you y8 head guys, I STRONGLY recommend getting the 105300 Cam. For you non VTEC guy, there are some good cams out there, none come to mind right now. Also Intake manifolds are a common addition. The y8 manifold has been shown to be the best Honda D IM. I have heard nothing but good about the Edelborck IM, so that’s another option. I went with the Skunk2 Pro manifold, since it was quite a bit cheaper. Bigger throttle bodies are also a good addition. Many B series throttle bodies are almost straight swaps onto out engines. I also used a Hondata Intake Manifold gasket, which i recommend with all the heat made from a turbocharged engine.

Now that the engine is pretty much finished we have reached the turbo setup. For a manifold, I personally recommend a miniram setup. If you have the money for a top mount or ram horn setup, than by all means go for that, but the miniram is a good cost effective alternative, that in some cases allows you to retain AC and almost always PS. I do not recommend log manifolds, though this has been done, because most have poor waste gate positioning (the Ebay Cast Ones) and logs have been shown to create MUCH lower hp/psi numbers than the others listed here.

For a turbo you have a ton of choices. I think for efficiency sake the smallest turbo you should use to make 400whp is the 50 trim .63. The spool on this is almost identical, however, to the 57 trim .63 which for this power level,is a much better fit and IMHO a better overall turbo. The 60 trim .63 is also used and good for the higher revving people who want the fastest possible 1/4mile times. The SC34 by Precision is basically a reworked 57 trim and the SC60 a 60 trim, so those work as well. If you are a big balla, you can go with a GT Series turbo. The smallest turbo I have seen to make 400whp is the GT2871R. Other popular choices are the GT3071R, GT3076R, GT3082R and the GT35R(which I wouldn’t personally recommend) Any and all of these options will allow you to reach your 400whp goal. Most people put some kind of filter on the compressor side of their turbo either a pipe with a intake at the end or just a clamped on filter. Some use mesh wire which is still debated. Some research has shown that foam filters are not good to use as they prevent a lot of power from being made. Also a good oil line kit is a necessity. I went with the Stealthmode Oil Line Kit from Tuner Toys, which is very popular, as is the Fast Turbo unit. I don’t usually recommend the Sandwich plate adapter, but that’s my personal opinion. An oil restrictor is also necessary in order to prevent blowing turbo seals. You can also get one of these from either company mentioned.

Most people with 400whp setups tend to go with 3†downpipes and 3†exhausts. This seems to be a good method to creating a lot of horsepower. For those of you who want a 400whp AC setup, usually a 2.5â€-3†flared downpipe is your best bet. Running open downpipe also can create a lot of extra horsepower but obviously is quite a noisemaker. I went with the 3/3 combo. Flex sections are highly recommended as well. I went with mild steel for cost purposes, though stainless if more commonly recommended.

Most people that I know of on this forum are running 38mm Wastegates, as I am as well. I went with a “Tial Style†Ebay wastegate, but depending on your money situation, a real Tial 38mm gate or a Turbonetics gate are recommended. For 400whp setups you want to have a bigger spring, (from what Ive seen) to hold boost better. I recommend a real tial spring if you do go with the Tial Style though. They are usually around $25 on Ebay and Forum Classified. I went with a .8bar spring, which I have yet to test its ability to hold boost upwards of 20psi. A dumptube is an almost necessary addition to this as well. Some people run theres pointed toward the ground (as I did), some run theres back with the downpipe towards the rear of the vehicle and some “dump†the dumptube into the downpipe. All these work well from what I have seen. Once again, stainless or mild steel are recommended.

For the Intercooler setup, it goes without saying you need a FMIC setup. For the sleeper look, I have seen mixed reviews on spray painting your FMIC black, but I think its generally accepted the cooling power is not SIGNIFICANTLY effected when using radiator paint or something of that nature. Still some choose to powdercoat or thermal dispersant coat, which is better but more expensive. Many different sizes and methods (such as the popular backdoor method) are available, just make sure to buy an intercooler than can provide effective cooling beyond what you plan to make (I went with a 650hp intercooler). Most using 2.5†aluminum piping all around. I went with black piping but it doesn’t matter. Silicon Couplers and TBolt clamps are recommended, unless you want to get the pipes welded, which is good for setups that don’t plan on changing and has led to less problems from what I’ve seen. A BOV is an extremely important part of the turbo setup as it relieves pressure in the charge pipes, as well as adding that nice whoosh sound upon letting off the accelerator. Tial, Greddy, HKS, TurboXS all make popularly used BOVs.

Now we’ve done the block,head,manifolds,turbo,downpipe,dumptube,exhau st,intercooler/piping.
Now comes the wonderful tune. Even a high dollar setup can fail because of a bad tune. Most people consider this the MOST important part and its usually the most cheaped out on part as well. Whats up with that? For almost every setup, a chipped ECU is required. The exceptions being AEM(high dollar), a piggyback (not usually recommended) among a few others. Crome/Crome Pro, eCtune, Hondata s1-300 and Neptune are the most popular systems I know of. For injectors, I think a good minimum for a 400whp setup are 750cc injectors, which I believe are also the biggest non-resistor requiring injectors made as well. I went qith 1000cc injectors as I was planning an E85 setup. I went with the radioshack resistor mod, 4 10w 10ohm resistors. Easier to me than the resistor box. Also a new map sensor is in order. Many have reached 400whp with a 2,5 bar map sensor, but IMHO a 3 bar is a good thing to always have. Motorola, GM, AEM and MSD all make good map sensors. SVE I haven’t really heard anything about.
Gauges are another important thing. I recommend everyone, if you can afford it, have a wideband setup in their car. Sure, with a good tune you should be fine, but its always good to have. A credible boost gauge should also be kept in view. It is also recommended that you have an oil pressure gauge, as oil is often the cause of blown engines. Some makers include Moates, AEM, Autometer, among others. I went with Autometer, which seems to be the most popular. A high volume fuel pump is also very much necessary, Most I believe use the Walbro 255lph pump, either the standard or the HP, Either I believe works fine. A boost controller is another important expense. Some go with the Manual Boost Controller while others go with the Electronic Boost Controller. I would say that either one should work fine. I am using a dual MBC, which uses both the popular Ball and Spring as well as Bleed Valve types.

A properly setup PCV (Positive Crankcase Ventilation) system is also a good thing to have. Stock just cant seem to keep up with the high power of a 400whp turbo D. There are a number of proven methods to use, but most recommend a tank with some type of filtered ventilation system. Look at the thread by miro_gt here on turbod16 to see a number of ways and their advs/disadvs.

Depending on your turbo setup and tune, you will probably need between 20-30psi of boost to hit that magic 400whp number.
Old 10-10-2007, 05:06 AM
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Default Re: (quicksilver1689)

i got the 400mark with 25psi from gt3076 .63ar. i could have gotten it lower with some parts but hey it was the engine's first time on the dyno..

click my sig for more info.


now building 500whp...
Old 10-10-2007, 05:07 AM
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oh and about 10K USD
Old 10-10-2007, 05:41 AM
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Default Re: (ralph11sec)

The stock head/cam/intake mani will limit you to mid 300's. I recall someone hitting a wall at 335whp with a d16z6 (forged internals, stock above headgasket) with a 57trim t3/t04e.

If you used that same turbo and pump gas, you'd need a decent turbo kit, a decent cam, possibly a diff intake manifold (to keep high rpm torque from dropping), and a built lower end. Assuming you do it yourself, thats:

$1000 for the completely refreshed & built motor
$400 cam/intake
$2000 for a decent turbo kit w/new turbo

People say you're better off with a stock b-series, but only if its a 100% track *****. This makes for a more reliable street car, and ends up being cheaper. A very nice b16 or b18 will hit 400whp stock with an awsome tune, but won't last long in most cases. It will cost $1k more just for the motor (kit price should be the same), yet still have cast pistons...

You can also save $250 with vitara pistons, its documented they can take 400whp. You can save a few hundred more with a used turbo, intake, and cam, but that will take some time.
Old 10-10-2007, 10:03 AM
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Default Re: (HiProfile)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HiProfile &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The stock head/cam/intake mani will limit you to mid 300's. I recall someone hitting a wall at 335whp with a d16z6 (forged internals, stock above headgasket) with a 57trim t3/t04e.</TD></TR></TABLE>fast2camcivi made 405whp on a 100% stock z6 head/IM/cam/TB
Old 10-10-2007, 10:19 AM
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nice stash of cash but I think you're gonna need more than $2200
Old 10-10-2007, 10:48 AM
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its so easy i could do it blind folded...

no seriously it is...here is my cookie cutter 400hp d list. and this isnt a joke, i know 4-5 guys that have followed it and got the same results i have.

head.
100% stock. (mine was 100% stock z6) you can add a zex cam and skank2 intake manifold if you like, but not necessary.

block.
vitara pistons, eagle rods, arp headstuds. endyne modded oil pump (diy) all oem gaskets and seals.

tranny.
a good clutch is a must. CM stage 4 or 5, or action 2md. are what i recomend. z6 or y8 tranny, with obx lsd are HIGHLY recomended as well.

fuel.
walbro 255 and 750cc injectors.

turbo kit.
t3/t4 57trim .60/.63,
ANY manifold (i used the drag, that is "supposed" to suck because of wastegate placement....its not that bad)
38mm wastegate with whatever spring you want (i ran 25psi on a 7psi spring)
2.5inch ic piping
an IC with a good size thick core
a bov capable of holding 25+psi
3" DP, 3" exhaust.

tuning.
i used cromepro tuned by me
2.5bar or 3bar map sensor

run all this at 25psi or more and you will make 400whp. i made 386 at 22psi, bumped it to 25 and made 405.

its going to take racegas and good tuning to hit 400whp i used 110 octane "pump" gas (we have that at the pump in idaho) i ran my old car around 20psi on 93 octane (i figure around 350hp) daily. i think on an e85 setup (inline bosch044 and 1000cc injectors) 400hp could be had daily. although your tires will hate you lol

follow these instructions and thank me in the morning lol
Old 10-10-2007, 10:50 AM
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btw i was into my old car for less than 8k and that was including the 3500 i paid for the car and around 1k for seats and wheels and other misc cosmetic crap...i could duplicate the whole motor/turbo kit for around 4k.

d builds are supposed to be budget/cheap builds...keep it that way
Old 10-10-2007, 10:56 AM
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Default Re: (fast2camciv)

you know I knocked this at first but after reading fast2camciv's post...i may jump on this...
Old 10-10-2007, 11:23 AM
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Default Re: (sikciv666)

I hate to even alude to a 'b vs d' argument, but you have to look at the possitives and negatives.

Many people run '500whp' daily driver dohc's, at which they can't even think about high boost with street tires until 4th gear. Their turbo also is so big that lag is noticable. Now if a D can make more power than street tires can handle, and have less lag despite the smaller displacement, and an Ex trans is a good for both highway rpm's and acceleration - why not go this way? Look at it this way - will a girl really care if your car only has 1 cam while their pimping the diamond tennis bracelets, diamond earrings, and diamond necklace that you gave her?

There is virtually nothing a b-series fanboy can say against a daily-driver D16, besides the fact that you have to buy another motor to hit 600whp+. That then begs the question - is resleeving your motor NOT changing to a different motor?
Old 10-10-2007, 12:41 PM
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Default Re: (HiProfile)

Ask your tuner!

As far as turbo kits go our D-Series Stage 1 kit will easily handle 400whp in any SOHC application. In addition to this purchase you will need to address your fuel and engine management systems as well as a clutch.

With our Pinks hatch (d16) we used the OEM fpr, fuel rail, fuel lines, distributor, spark plug wires, cam gear, transmission, radiator fan, etc. and really only upgraded parts which needed to be addressed for reliability reasons and a few for a wider powerband I suggest researching the now archived thread on its build.

A D series is much like a B series when comparing a budget build. You can push over 400whp on a stock longblock but you wont sleep much at night. I suggest Pistons, Rods, Intake Manifold and a good tune for your application along with the aforementioned.
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