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What's the feasibility of using a Compound diesel turbo on b18b1?

What's the feasibility of using a Compound diesel turbo on b18b1?

 
Old 01-17-2019, 04:51 PM
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Default What's the feasibility of using a Compound diesel turbo on b18b1?

I know this is not the most efficient or the most cost-effective but I don't think it's ever been done. Take a compound turbo off say a 6.7 powerstroke and slap it on front of a b18. I got this idea from DeBoss garage's dual compound turbo v8 ls (4 turbos in total) so I think a b series with just one would make some more usable power down low.
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Old 01-17-2019, 05:06 PM
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Old 01-17-2019, 06:39 PM
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Default re: What's the feasibility of using a Compound diesel turbo on b18b1?

I tuned a car with a garret gtp38 off a ford 7.3l, made 440whp but didn't come alive till almost 6500-7k. He changed it out for some eBay turbo that was better sized for his engine and made 495 and a ton more mid range.

If you wanna run a diesel turbo get a holset hy35, they have a small hot side and support good power while still having good spool charicteristics. I had one on a 90 awd talon on 38lbs, at 4100 it would build about 3lbs of boost, by 4400 it would hit full boost.

I think compound turbo's wouldn't benifit you at all especially turbo's sized for a 6.7l. Edit* just saw you were talking about just one. I don't know much about those ford turbo's or what type of flanges they have but go for it and report back
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Old 01-18-2019, 03:14 AM
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Default re: What's the feasibility of using a Compound diesel turbo on b18b1?

"Equipped with variable geometry technology, a ceramic ball-bearing center cartridge, and an electronically-activated internal wastegate, the GT32 SST had all the bells and whistles, but proved to be a big restriction for the engine. Its dual compressor wheels sat back-to-back on a common shaft, but their small 46mm inducers yielded a power curve that ran out of steam before 3,000 rpm, not to mention that the turbine side was undersized by todayís standards.

In laymanís terms, the factory turbo is a ticking time bomb once itís asked to cope with power levels beyond stock."


"The 2011-2012 trucks had the most turbo issues. The bearings would fail. In the early production models, they used ceramic bearings that often failed. The updated replacement turbo now has steel bearings which seem to be holding up pretty well."

It might be a cool project although the turbine-compressor mismatch that affected the stock application might come into play on a high VE gasoline engine like a B-series. Also I don't know how well the VGT system will hold up against turbo gasoline EGT's. If you really want to do it for $#!t and giggles then go for it, however there are many other 'normal' fixed geometry turbos that will out perform and probably out spool it with less complication.

There's a 2G Auto DSM with a TD05/GT45 compound setup that is pretty sick.

Last edited by extremeracer; 01-18-2019 at 03:34 AM.
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Old 01-19-2019, 12:38 PM
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Default re: What's the feasibility of using a Compound diesel turbo on b18b1?

Originally Posted by extremeracer View Post

There's a 2G Auto DSM with a TD05/GT45 compound setup that is pretty sick.
are you on about kevins rwd one? thats a really cool setup and does help him when hes on the converter pretty well.

Remember massive low down torque on a FWD application does not equate to a fast street car due to the wheelspin.

But if we are using a diesel turbo as an example, my holset hx40/35 with a 12cm housing hits 30psi at 4500rpm on a 1800cc engine(80x89), with a similar head flow as a non vtec LS and i spin that to 8500rpm giving me a nice powerband

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Old 01-19-2019, 03:25 PM
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Default re: What's the feasibility of using a Compound diesel turbo on b18b1?

Do you remember vesrion of that holset? Inducer exducer etc? Is that twin scroll setup or you milled the divider?
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Old 01-19-2019, 03:30 PM
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Default re: What's the feasibility of using a Compound diesel turbo on b18b1?

Originally Posted by Balor_Gr View Post
Do you remember vesrion of that holset? Inducer exducer etc? Is that twin scroll setup or you milled the divider?
hx35/40 are common, and come openly divided ( stop using the term "twin scroll" when it doesn't apply please. You're only perpetuating the misue of the word & spreading nonsense when you don't mean to).

I'll find an adibiatic map of it if you're interested in learning more about perhaps the only performance diesel turbo that works on platforms that were not diesel. (HX/HY series Holsets)

Reference catalog info
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Old 01-19-2019, 04:03 PM
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Default re: What's the feasibility of using a Compound diesel turbo on b18b1?

Originally Posted by Balor_Gr View Post
Do you remember vesrion of that holset? Inducer exducer etc? Is that twin scroll setup or you milled the divider?
turbolab billet 60/86mm compressor wheel with normal hx35 60/70mm turbine wheel.

To make Shodan happy its a 12cm divided housing with a twin scroll manifold with seperate 40mm gates plumbed into a 3.5" exhaust.

3500rpm 10psi
4000rpm 20psi
4500rpm 30psi
Cant see what it makes at 5000rpm yet as it currently wheelspins in 5th gear at 5000rpm which when your in a rwd 1430lb/650kg car is pretty nutty.

This is all on the american equivalent of pump 93/94, we dont have e85 in our country.

My plan is 42-43psi, which im expecting to be close to 650bhp as it makes 570bhp on 35psi
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Old 01-20-2019, 11:43 AM
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Default re: What's the feasibility of using a Compound diesel turbo on b18b1?

Originally Posted by TheShodan View Post
hx35/40 are common, and come openly divided ( stop using the term "twin scroll" when it doesn't apply please. You're only perpetuating the misue of the word & spreading nonsense when you don't mean to).

I'll find an adibiatic map of it if you're interested in learning more about perhaps the only performance diesel turbo that works on platforms that were not diesel. (HX/HY series Holsets)

Reference catalog info
I know man. You know it slips my mind many times since everone is calling it twin scroll
There a lot of strange combos of hx35 hx40 combos in europe thats why im asking

Originally Posted by Lee Connor View Post
turbolab billet 60/86mm compressor wheel with normal hx35 60/70mm turbine wheel.

To make Shodan happy its a 12cm divided housing with a twin scroll manifold with seperate 40mm gates plumbed into a 3.5" exhaust.

3500rpm 10psi
4000rpm 20psi
4500rpm 30psi
Cant see what it makes at 5000rpm yet as it currently wheelspins in 5th gear at 5000rpm which when your in a rwd 1430lb/650kg car is pretty nutty.

This is all on the american equivalent of pump 93/94, we dont have e85 in our country.

My plan is 42-43psi, which im expecting to be close to 650bhp as it makes 570bhp on 35psi
Whats the hp you managed to hit? 12cm t3 divided is kinda small for 650 hp probably.
Im very happy you have this response from it. Is your engine 1.8 or 2.0.
There is a super cheap Holset turbo that is 58/85 - 60/70(12 blade) 12cm T3 dividedand i believe its a off the self holset turbo
https://www.turbozentrum.de/Holset-Turbo-MFS35_1
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Old 01-20-2019, 03:01 PM
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Default re: What's the feasibility of using a Compound diesel turbo on b18b1?

Originally Posted by Balor_Gr View Post
I know man. You know it slips my mind many times since everone is calling it twin scroll
There a lot of strange combos of hx35 hx40 combos in europe thats why im asking


Whats the hp you managed to hit? 12cm t3 divided is kinda small for 650 hp probably.
Im very happy you have this response from it. Is your engine 1.8 or 2.0.
There is a super cheap Holset turbo that is 58/85 - 60/70(12 blade) 12cm T3 dividedand i believe its a off the self holset turbo
https://www.turbozentrum.de/Holset-Turbo-MFS35_1
it says above, 570bhp at 35psi up to yet and its a 1796cc(80x89)

Remember though my head flow is very poor, much worse than honda/4g63/VAG 1.8T etc so i need to run alot of boost to make the power

As a guide a 12cm is like a 0.89 divided, which flows about the same as a 0.71 single scroll.

at 35psi of boost im at 40psi of exhaust back pressure at 8000rpm, i do also have a 16cm housing to bolt on if i find i cant get to 650bhp due to high EBP, that should flow like a 0.95 single scroll
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Old 01-20-2019, 11:26 PM
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Default re: What's the feasibility of using a Compound diesel turbo on b18b1?

Lee Connor what engine are you referencing in your example ? Yes I was "on about" Kevin Jewster's car but the AWD 2G Talon not the RWD 1G.

I think the OP was particularly interested in using the dual compressor off the 6.7 powerstroke and not the generic use of diesel turbos. Funny how this has turned into a Holset discussion though. I have a lot of experience using Holset turbochargers on performance applications and one of my customers even ran 7's with a Holset turbo :-)
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Old 01-21-2019, 12:16 AM
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Default re: What's the feasibility of using a Compound diesel turbo on b18b1?

Originally Posted by Lee Connor View Post
it says above, 570bhp at 35psi up to yet and its a 1796cc(80x89)

Remember though my head flow is very poor, much worse than honda/4g63/VAG 1.8T etc so i need to run alot of boost to make the power

As a guide a 12cm is like a 0.89 divided, which flows about the same as a 0.71 single scroll.

at 35psi of boost im at 40psi of exhaust back pressure at 8000rpm, i do also have a 16cm housing to bolt on if i find i cant get to 650bhp due to high EBP, that should flow like a 0.95 single scroll
Honda heads has nothng to compare with 20vt or 4g63. But 35psi boost and 40psi back pressure is not bad at all especially on a small turbine housing. This is a good engine there.
12cm with 12cm is different. At least what i saw. My 12 cm (evo x turbo) passages down the volute was on the big side. A friend with the 12cm 58/60 holset i ordered fot him had small passages on the volute curve.
Not sure how they measure it tho. The CHEAT with divided setup is that you can run high back pressure without canibalising the VE of the engine too much.
Did you measure both sides for back pressure? Im trying to understand if the inner side creates more back pressure or the outer side.
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Old 01-21-2019, 05:15 AM
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Default re: What's the feasibility of using a Compound diesel turbo on b18b1?

Originally Posted by Balor_Gr View Post
Honda heads has nothng to compare with 20vt or 4g63. But 35psi boost and 40psi back pressure is not bad at all especially on a small turbine housing. This is a good engine there.
12cm with 12cm is different. At least what i saw. My 12 cm (evo x turbo) passages down the volute was on the big side. A friend with the 12cm 58/60 holset i ordered fot him had small passages on the volute curve.
Not sure how they measure it tho. The CHEAT with divided setup is that you can run high back pressure without canibalising the VE of the engine too much.
Did you measure both sides for back pressure? Im trying to understand if the inner side creates more back pressure or the outer side.
Your inner versus outer backpressure question/theory would only apply to a true twin-scroll setup [MHI] and not a divided (split-pulse) [Holset] setup in my mind. A divided setup should be close to equal if the runners were equal length I would think.
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Old 01-21-2019, 06:27 AM
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Default re: What's the feasibility of using a Compound diesel turbo on b18b1?

Even if the housing is identical on both sides and it is divided all the way around the turbine wheel, the fire hits different point on the wheel. If the Housing is half way divided and not all around the turbine wheel then it equalises since pulses almost hit the turbine wheel on the same height.The holset 12cm is not divided all the way?
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Old 01-21-2019, 09:17 AM
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Default re: What's the feasibility of using a Compound diesel turbo on b18b1?

Originally Posted by extremeracer View Post
Lee Connor what engine are you referencing in your example ? Yes I was "on about" Kevin Jewster's car but the AWD 2G Talon not the RWD 1G.

I think the OP was particularly interested in using the dual compressor off the 6.7 powerstroke and not the generic use of diesel turbos. Funny how this has turned into a Holset discussion though. I have a lot of experience using Holset turbochargers on performance applications and one of my customers even ran 7's with a Holset turbo :-)
The engine is called a Rover K Series

Its alot different than a normal engine, i call it a 'compression' engine rather than a 'tension' engine.....it has 413mm long head bolts that go all the way through the block into a ladder and basically compresses everything together, compared to a normal engine where the seperate mains and head bolts are trying to pull the block apart



as a guide on head flow

B16 AT 28" 229/183
ROVER K SERIES AT 28" 192/130

So you can see its really hard to get the gas out of the engine

Originally Posted by Balor_Gr View Post
Honda heads has nothng to compare with 20vt or 4g63. But 35psi boost and 40psi back pressure is not bad at all especially on a small turbine housing. This is a good engine there.
12cm with 12cm is different. At least what i saw. My 12 cm (evo x turbo) passages down the volute was on the big side. A friend with the 12cm 58/60 holset i ordered fot him had small passages on the volute curve.
Not sure how they measure it tho. The CHEAT with divided setup is that you can run high back pressure without canibalising the VE of the engine too much.
Did you measure both sides for back pressure? Im trying to understand if the inner side creates more back pressure or the outer side.
I dont measure both sides, just for cylinder 1 and 4, though i have seen based on my 4 channel EGT setup that each cylinder seems to want very similar fuel

Originally Posted by Balor_Gr View Post
Even if the housing is identical on both sides and it is divided all the way around the turbine wheel, the fire hits different point on the wheel. If the Housing is half way divided and not all around the turbine wheel then it equalises since pulses almost hit the turbine wheel on the same height.The holset 12cm is not divided all the way?
Its divided all the way to the wheel looking at my empty turbine housing i have on my table here

Last edited by Lee Connor; 01-21-2019 at 09:52 AM.
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Old 01-21-2019, 06:15 PM
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Default re: What's the feasibility of using a Compound diesel turbo on b18b1?

Originally Posted by Lee Connor View Post
The engine is called a Rover K Series
Its divided all the way to the wheel looking at my empty turbine housing i have on my table here
Clear photos of turbine volute please? Multiple angles..
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Old 01-22-2019, 08:12 AM
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Let me know if you can see these or not as they are connected to my facebook account, i hope these are what your looking for?
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Old 01-22-2019, 09:48 AM
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Default re: What's the feasibility of using a Compound diesel turbo on b18b1?

Looks as twin as it gets to me. Its probably the same housing the "5860" version of it i ordered for a friend. Its has the same conical/tiagular passages.
Yeah i didnt expected that to be full divided. I was allways sure holset's passages merge. Thats the same with my evo X turbine housing.
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Old 01-22-2019, 09:58 AM
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Default re: What's the feasibility of using a Compound diesel turbo on b18b1?

Originally Posted by Balor_Gr View Post
Looks as twin as it gets to me. Its probably the same housing the "5860" version of it i ordered for a friend. Its has the same conical/tiagular passages.
Yeah i didnt expected that to be full divided. I was allways sure holset's passages merge. Thats the same with my evo X turbine housing.
hx35 compressor came in 54mm 7 blade or 56mm 8 blade, turbine is 60mm
hx40 compressor came in 58mm and 60mm, turbine is 64mm

so looks like your friend has a combination of hx40 and 35
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Old 01-22-2019, 12:01 PM
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Default re: What's the feasibility of using a Compound diesel turbo on b18b1?

Originally Posted by Lee Connor View Post
hx35 compressor came in 54mm 7 blade or 56mm 8 blade, turbine is 60mm
hx40 compressor came in 58mm and 60mm, turbine is 64mm

so looks like your friend has a combination of hx40 and 35
Yep, she be the "Real McCoy". I don't drive into the Holset world anymore like I used to. But that works..not very well on a B18B, (regardless of whether or not the volute is indeed twin scroll or not) for a variety of other reasons, but it works.

HX35/40 is a much more common turbo than most realize. It wasn created without any aftermarket company laying its hands on it. From what i remember still available via eBay shops for those that want one.
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Old 01-22-2019, 12:16 PM
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Default re: What's the feasibility of using a Compound diesel turbo on b18b1?

Originally Posted by TheShodan View Post
Yep, she be the "Real McCoy". I don't drive into the Holset world anymore like I used to. But that works..not very well on a B18B, (regardless of whether or not the volute is indeed twin scroll or not) for a variety of other reasons, but it works.

HX35/40 is a much more common turbo than most realize. It wasn created without any aftermarket company laying its hands on it. From what i remember still available via eBay shops for those that want one.
whats interesting is that 16cm housing isnt actually a genuine holset one, its been cast by BD Power and i got it shipped from the US as we dont have holsets over here, ive also got a 12cm and a 11cm, both of those are genuine and have the same division all the way to the turbine wheel.

To be fair i would say it should work well on a B18B, its a similar bore and stroke to my engine, similar poor headflow(i assume your talking about non vtec) the 56mm compressor i first had on it would get to 30psi 500rpm earlier but run out of puff at 450bhp, on 4g63 the hx35 12cm hits 30psi at 3000rpm and will push a dsm to mid 10s on e85 which i thought was decent enough.

the highest ive seen a 12cm turbine housing do is 700bhp and the 16cm is 750bhp, both on the same 4g63 engine, just a back to back test with only a housing swap but it was a full hx40 64mm turbine, so it will be interesting to see how far i can get with the 60mm turbine, maths says 660bhp
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Old 01-22-2019, 01:36 PM
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Default Re: Compound diesel turbo on b18b1

Originally Posted by Lee Connor View Post
whats interesting is that 16cm housing isnt actually a genuine holset one, its been cast by BD Power and i got it shipped from the US as we dont have holsets over here, ive also got a 12cm and a 11cm, both of those are genuine and have the same division all the way to the turbine wheel.
I think you mean Bullseye Power. They have made those for years. But I think the OP took off, so, hopefully the discussion doesn't end.
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Old 01-22-2019, 01:39 PM
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Default Re: Compound diesel turbo on b18b1

Originally Posted by TheShodan View Post
I think you mean Bullseye Power. They have made those for years. But I think the OP took off, so, hopefully the discussion doesn't end.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BD-Diesel...72.m2749.l2649

BD Diesel. not Power sorry

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Old 01-22-2019, 05:23 PM
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Default Re: Compound diesel turbo on b18b1

Originally Posted by Lee Connor View Post
heh. Bullseyepower makes it also. They were just smart enough to not sell on eBay. But, you're fine. Good luck to you.
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Old 01-25-2019, 12:08 AM
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Default Re: What's the feasibility of using a Compound diesel turbo on b18b1?

Originally Posted by Lee Connor View Post

the highest ive seen a 12cm turbine housing do is 700bhp and the 16cm is 750bhp, both on the same 4g63 engine, just a back to back test with only a housing swap but it was a full hx40 64mm turbine, so it will be interesting to see how far i can get with the 60mm turbine, maths says 660bhp
12cm open housing or divided? Thats good news.

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