what do you think about LS/VTEC turbo vs. GSR turbo?
05-06-2005, 05:48 PM
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what do you think about LS/VTEC turbo vs. GSR turbo?
I have a 2000 GSR with stock bottom end and fully built head ( Portflow p&p, valves, dual springs bronze guides, ect ect ect ) I am curious about switching to LS/VTEC and keeping turbo. What would you reccommend and why?
Also if i do decide to go ls/vtec, what will i need to do and buy?
Also if i do decide to go ls/vtec, what will i need to do and buy?
05-06-2005, 06:06 PM
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Re: what do you think about LS/VTEC turbo vs. GSR turbo? (2000turbogsr)
why change unless your going to build the ls bottom end to spin to 8600+ dont do it. I mean 300 hp on any stock bottom end is 300 hp. I say leave it alone unless your going to build ls bottom end...and i would rather build gsr bottom end...but hey thats me. 
05-06-2005, 06:24 PM
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Re: what do you think about LS/VTEC turbo vs. GSR turbo? (deftones0817)
i would build it, i just thought that ls blocks will make more torque than a gsr thats boosted. maybe i was misled but it seems like that true.
05-06-2005, 06:34 PM
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Re: what do you think about LS/VTEC turbo vs. GSR turbo? (2000turbogsr)
the LS block only makes more torque due to the rod/stroke ratio. If you want the same in your GSR block, just swap out the GSR crank and rods in favor of the b20 or LS crank and rods. After you do that, voilah..you have :drum: roll please!! Essentially the exact same thing as an LSVtec. Only you have the factory oil squirters
05-06-2005, 06:40 PM
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Re: what do you think about LS/VTEC turbo vs. GSR turbo? (Sohc Driver)
The biggest reason LS-T's make more torque than GSR-T's is they're a poorer breathing motor. An LS spinning to 7K to make 300 WHP is going to take, on average, 14 pounds of boost from a decent sized turbo, like a T3/TO4E 57-trim. That 14 pounds of boost hitting at 4000 adds a lot more torque than the 8-9 pounds of boost that it would take on a GSR motor, the GSR makes more power because it carries that torque higher into the rev range. When you get down to it the difference between an LS crank and a GSR crank is basically unnoticeable in a built VTEC motor. Stick with the GSR block, you keep your original block which may help when you want to sell the car, plus you don't have to spend the extra cash for the oil lines and dowel pins to get the head on there.
05-06-2005, 07:44 PM
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Re: what do you think about LS/VTEC turbo vs. GSR turbo? (Napoleon Dynamite)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Napoleon Dynamite »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The biggest reason LS-T's make more torque than GSR-T's is they're a poorer breathing motor.</TD></TR></TABLE>
What?
What?
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05-06-2005, 07:50 PM
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Re: what do you think about LS/VTEC turbo vs. GSR turbo? (Sohc Driver)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Sohc Driver »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
What? </TD></TR></TABLE>
lower head flow + longer intake runners + smaller cams = more low speed torque. It has everything to do with the top end, and not the crankshaft. Pair the smaller cams, worse flowing head, and intake with longer runners with 6 more pounds of boost and you make a bunch more torque.
What?
</TD></TR></TABLE>lower head flow + longer intake runners + smaller cams = more low speed torque. It has everything to do with the top end, and not the crankshaft. Pair the smaller cams, worse flowing head, and intake with longer runners with 6 more pounds of boost and you make a bunch more torque.
05-06-2005, 09:07 PM
#9
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Re: what do you think about LS/VTEC turbo vs. GSR turbo? (Napoleon Dynamite)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Napoleon Dynamite »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
lower head flow + longer intake runners + smaller cams = more low speed torque. It has everything to do with the top end, and not the crankshaft. Pair the smaller cams, worse flowing head, and intake with longer runners with 6 more pounds of boost and you make a bunch more torque.</TD></TR></TABLE>
It has a lot to do with the bottom end. How do you explain the difference in torque between a straight b16a vs lsvtec w/ b16a head?
lower head flow + longer intake runners + smaller cams = more low speed torque. It has everything to do with the top end, and not the crankshaft. Pair the smaller cams, worse flowing head, and intake with longer runners with 6 more pounds of boost and you make a bunch more torque.</TD></TR></TABLE>
It has a lot to do with the bottom end. How do you explain the difference in torque between a straight b16a vs lsvtec w/ b16a head?
05-06-2005, 09:32 PM
#10
Re: what do you think about LS/VTEC turbo vs. GSR turbo? (2000turbogsr)
Why the hell would you want to go through all that work for extreme minimal gain? You have a GSR dont down grade to a lowly LS block
Use your time and money to develop what you have.
Use your time and money to develop what you have.
05-06-2005, 09:39 PM
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Re: what do you think about LS/VTEC turbo vs. GSR turbo? (Sohc Driver)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Sohc Driver »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
It has a lot to do with the bottom end. How do you explain the difference in torque between a straight b16a vs lsvtec w/ b16a head? </TD></TR></TABLE>
I'm going to go ahead and suggest the fact that the LS/VTEC has an 18.6mm longer stroke and 200CC's more displacement than the B16.
He's comparing a GSR to an LS block, not a B16 to an LS.
It has a lot to do with the bottom end. How do you explain the difference in torque between a straight b16a vs lsvtec w/ b16a head? </TD></TR></TABLE>
I'm going to go ahead and suggest the fact that the LS/VTEC has an 18.6mm longer stroke and 200CC's more displacement than the B16.
He's comparing a GSR to an LS block, not a B16 to an LS.
05-07-2005, 04:54 AM
#12
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Re: what do you think about LS/VTEC turbo vs. GSR turbo? (Napoleon Dynamite)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Napoleon Dynamite »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I'm going to go ahead and suggest the fact that the LS/VTEC has an 18.6mm longer stroke and 200CC's more displacement than the B16.
He's comparing a GSR to an LS block, not a B16 to an LS.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Thats my point, torque has a lot to do with the bottom end. The LS block also actually only has a 12mm longer stroke over the b16a and 239cc's over the b16a.
But if you want to compare the GSR to the LS, the LS has 1.8mm longer stroke and 35cc's more displacement over the GSR.
But like I said before. If you want every inch of torque and displacment out of your stock bore GSR block. You can just swap out the crank and rods in favor of LS or B20 components.
Khoi
I'm going to go ahead and suggest the fact that the LS/VTEC has an 18.6mm longer stroke and 200CC's more displacement than the B16.
He's comparing a GSR to an LS block, not a B16 to an LS.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Thats my point, torque has a lot to do with the bottom end. The LS block also actually only has a 12mm longer stroke over the b16a and 239cc's over the b16a.
But if you want to compare the GSR to the LS, the LS has 1.8mm longer stroke and 35cc's more displacement over the GSR.
But like I said before. If you want every inch of torque and displacment out of your stock bore GSR block. You can just swap out the crank and rods in favor of LS or B20 components.
Khoi
05-07-2005, 11:02 AM
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Re: what do you think about LS/VTEC turbo vs. GSR turbo? (Napoleon Dynamite)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Napoleon Dynamite »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
lower head flow + longer intake runners + smaller cams = more low speed torque. It has everything to do with the top end, and not the crankshaft. Pair the smaller cams, worse flowing head, and intake with longer runners with 6 more pounds of boost and you make a bunch more torque.</TD></TR></TABLE>
ok part..and i mean PART of the reason for higher torque on an ls has to do with the head becuase the ls head flows more velocity where a vtec head flows more volume. the more velocity a head flows the more torque it will make...but the main reason for higher torque on a ls engine is the r/s ratio on the block. Not all of it has to do with the head.
lower head flow + longer intake runners + smaller cams = more low speed torque. It has everything to do with the top end, and not the crankshaft. Pair the smaller cams, worse flowing head, and intake with longer runners with 6 more pounds of boost and you make a bunch more torque.</TD></TR></TABLE>
ok part..and i mean PART of the reason for higher torque on an ls has to do with the head becuase the ls head flows more velocity where a vtec head flows more volume. the more velocity a head flows the more torque it will make...but the main reason for higher torque on a ls engine is the r/s ratio on the block. Not all of it has to do with the head.
05-07-2005, 12:32 PM
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Re: what do you think about LS/VTEC turbo vs. GSR turbo? (Sohc Driver)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Sohc Driver »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Thats my point, torque has a lot to do with the bottom end. The LS block also actually only has a 12mm longer stroke over the b16a and 239cc's over the b16a.
But if you want to compare the GSR to the LS, the LS has 1.8mm longer stroke and 35cc's more displacement over the GSR.
But like I said before. If you want every inch of torque and displacment out of your stock bore GSR block. You can just swap out the crank and rods in favor of LS or B20 components.
Khoi </TD></TR></TABLE>
I was drinking last night, my math was a bit off lol.
You said it right, 35CC's. You don't hear anyone ranting and raving over the huge torque gains they see when they take their motor .5mm over and gain right around 25 CC's, because that much displacement really doesn't mean anything. The difference when you get down to it is too small to even measure when you're on a built motor with a VTEC head. The rod/stroke ratio difference means nothing, it's about 2% faster on an LS crank setup than a GSR setup at 9500 RPM's, that really means squat.
If you put a GSR crank in a 400 WHP setup and then put an LS crank in the same setup with everything the same (compression, timing, weight of components, etc, etc) I would wager the difference in peak torque will be no more than 5 ft-lbs at the wheels. It's so small that it's virtually meaningless when you have similar heads on them.
Thats my point, torque has a lot to do with the bottom end. The LS block also actually only has a 12mm longer stroke over the b16a and 239cc's over the b16a.
But if you want to compare the GSR to the LS, the LS has 1.8mm longer stroke and 35cc's more displacement over the GSR.
But like I said before. If you want every inch of torque and displacment out of your stock bore GSR block. You can just swap out the crank and rods in favor of LS or B20 components.
Khoi </TD></TR></TABLE>
I was drinking last night, my math was a bit off lol.
You said it right, 35CC's. You don't hear anyone ranting and raving over the huge torque gains they see when they take their motor .5mm over and gain right around 25 CC's, because that much displacement really doesn't mean anything. The difference when you get down to it is too small to even measure when you're on a built motor with a VTEC head. The rod/stroke ratio difference means nothing, it's about 2% faster on an LS crank setup than a GSR setup at 9500 RPM's, that really means squat.
If you put a GSR crank in a 400 WHP setup and then put an LS crank in the same setup with everything the same (compression, timing, weight of components, etc, etc) I would wager the difference in peak torque will be no more than 5 ft-lbs at the wheels. It's so small that it's virtually meaningless when you have similar heads on them.
05-07-2005, 02:05 PM
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Re: what do you think about LS/VTEC turbo vs. GSR turbo? (Napoleon Dynamite)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Napoleon Dynamite »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I was drinking last night, my math was a bit off lol.
You said it right, 35CC's. You don't hear anyone ranting and raving over the huge torque gains they see when they take their motor .5mm over and gain right around 25 CC's, because that much displacement really doesn't mean anything. The difference when you get down to it is too small to even measure when you're on a built motor with a VTEC head. The rod/stroke ratio difference means nothing, it's about 2% faster on an LS crank setup than a GSR setup at 9500 RPM's, that really means squat.
If you put a GSR crank in a 400 WHP setup and then put an LS crank in the same setup with everything the same (compression, timing, weight of components, etc, etc) I would wager the difference in peak torque will be no more than 5 ft-lbs at the wheels. It's so small that it's virtually meaningless when you have similar heads on them.</TD></TR></TABLE>
your right....a LS head flows alot more velocity compared to a vtec head...that helps alot with torque...the r/s ratio also helps. a vtec head flows more volume which produces more HP.....i would much rather have an ls/vtec (spining to 8-8.5k) becuase you get a head that flows more volume to help with hp and u get a block with a longer r/s ratio so u get alittle extra torque. but if your one of those people that love to spin to 9-10k ls/vtec's arnt for you. (unless you wana spend alot of money on a motor).
LS heads may make alot of torque but face it, they suck donkey *****.
I was drinking last night, my math was a bit off lol.
You said it right, 35CC's. You don't hear anyone ranting and raving over the huge torque gains they see when they take their motor .5mm over and gain right around 25 CC's, because that much displacement really doesn't mean anything. The difference when you get down to it is too small to even measure when you're on a built motor with a VTEC head. The rod/stroke ratio difference means nothing, it's about 2% faster on an LS crank setup than a GSR setup at 9500 RPM's, that really means squat.
If you put a GSR crank in a 400 WHP setup and then put an LS crank in the same setup with everything the same (compression, timing, weight of components, etc, etc) I would wager the difference in peak torque will be no more than 5 ft-lbs at the wheels. It's so small that it's virtually meaningless when you have similar heads on them.</TD></TR></TABLE>
your right....a LS head flows alot more velocity compared to a vtec head...that helps alot with torque...the r/s ratio also helps. a vtec head flows more volume which produces more HP.....i would much rather have an ls/vtec (spining to 8-8.5k) becuase you get a head that flows more volume to help with hp and u get a block with a longer r/s ratio so u get alittle extra torque. but if your one of those people that love to spin to 9-10k ls/vtec's arnt for you. (unless you wana spend alot of money on a motor).
LS heads may make alot of torque but face it, they suck donkey *****.
05-07-2005, 02:39 PM
#17
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Re: what do you think about LS/VTEC turbo vs. GSR turbo? (Napoleon Dynamite)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Napoleon Dynamite »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I was drinking last night, my math was a bit off lol.
You said it right, 35CC's. You don't hear anyone ranting and raving over the huge torque gains they see when they take their motor .5mm over and gain right around 25 CC's, because that much displacement really doesn't mean anything. The difference when you get down to it is too small to even measure when you're on a built motor with a VTEC head. The rod/stroke ratio difference means nothing, it's about 2% faster on an LS crank setup than a GSR setup at 9500 RPM's, that really means squat.
If you put a GSR crank in a 400 WHP setup and then put an LS crank in the same setup with everything the same (compression, timing, weight of components, etc, etc) I would wager the difference in peak torque will be no more than 5 ft-lbs at the wheels. It's so small that it's virtually meaningless when you have similar heads on them.</TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Muckman »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yup thats what I said too. Why invest all that time and money? Put that money towards a bigger turbo and tuning, you'll see much bigger gains elsewhere.</TD></TR></TABLE>
You both just missed the point I was getting across. I am not in favor of going through the trouble of going for an LSvtec when I already have a GSR. I was only stating that the bottomend is the primary factor in torque, not the head.
Khoi
I was drinking last night, my math was a bit off lol.
You said it right, 35CC's. You don't hear anyone ranting and raving over the huge torque gains they see when they take their motor .5mm over and gain right around 25 CC's, because that much displacement really doesn't mean anything. The difference when you get down to it is too small to even measure when you're on a built motor with a VTEC head. The rod/stroke ratio difference means nothing, it's about 2% faster on an LS crank setup than a GSR setup at 9500 RPM's, that really means squat.
If you put a GSR crank in a 400 WHP setup and then put an LS crank in the same setup with everything the same (compression, timing, weight of components, etc, etc) I would wager the difference in peak torque will be no more than 5 ft-lbs at the wheels. It's so small that it's virtually meaningless when you have similar heads on them.</TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Muckman »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yup thats what I said too. Why invest all that time and money? Put that money towards a bigger turbo and tuning, you'll see much bigger gains elsewhere.</TD></TR></TABLE>
You both just missed the point I was getting across. I am not in favor of going through the trouble of going for an LSvtec when I already have a GSR. I was only stating that the bottomend is the primary factor in torque, not the head.
Khoi
05-07-2005, 08:52 PM
#19
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Re: what do you think about LS/VTEC turbo vs. GSR turbo? (Muckman)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Muckman »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Your right, but I never questioned your statement 
</TD></TR></TABLE>
</TD></TR></TABLE>
05-09-2005, 10:20 AM
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Re: what do you think about LS/VTEC turbo vs. GSR turbo? (Sohc Driver)
well thnx for the feedback... i have decided to go ahead and build the **** out of my gsr block.
I am gonna shoot for 450whp+!!!! We'll see in a month or two if it will do it. I cant wait!
I am gonna shoot for 450whp+!!!! We'll see in a month or two if it will do it. I cant wait!
05-10-2005, 02:24 AM
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Re: what do you think about LS/VTEC turbo vs. GSR turbo? (2000turbogsr)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 2000turbogsr »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">well thnx for the feedback... i have decided to go ahead and build the **** out of my gsr block.
I am gonna shoot for 450whp+!!!! We'll see in a month or two if it will do it. I cant wait! </TD></TR></TABLE>
all it takes for 450whp is pistons n rods
go for 500+
I am gonna shoot for 450whp+!!!! We'll see in a month or two if it will do it. I cant wait!
</TD></TR></TABLE>all it takes for 450whp is pistons n rods
go for 500+
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