RSZero1

Hey Hey guys, I have now crossed over into the dark voodoo side of FI. I just got the Greddy SOHC kit with FMIC...I still have yet to install it but it's all there including blue box, FMU and Missing link, AEM fuel rail, AEM FPR. I still have to get a cat and some other stuff.

I've read Liam's VAFC hack alternative an I have considered it...if I am just staying within the Greddy Kit parameters, would the Blue Box be fine, or are there real drawbacks?

2000vsm

argjh.. why don't u people ever use SMC!!!! SMC lets you use 450cc and THAT'S ALL YOU NEED

why **** around with the FMU, missing link, check valves and fuel pump, FPR riser with "STOCK" 240cc injectors?? and buying a $300 vafc... you guys just trying to destroy the fuel pump with high pressures and your little stock injectors are garbage... get 450cc dsm injectors + smc and THAT'S IT.. no more fmu, fpr, fuel pump, missing link...

it's a win-win-win-win-win situation.. cheaper and more reliable and more REAL power with 450cc.. don't jump on bandwagon like others and do the stupid vafc hack, espeically with stock injectors

RotiEatter

iTrader: (1)

nOOb question but what is a SMC?

RSZero1

I wasn't planning on using the Missing link or FMU, just the VAFC 440 injectors and a resistor pack...but if that SMC is a better option, please educate me...I have no idea what SMC is? Santa Monica College? j/p

2000vsm

yes smc is just like a VAFC (without the fancy dancy display and the vtec controlling portion) but acts as a missing link and fuel controller.. way better than the vafc hack.. smc is no HACK..

please spread the knowledge about smc.. read up on the website

http://userwww.sfsu.edu/~ecg/SMC/smc500.htm

there are currently 3 teirs of SMC, the SMC+, SMC 500 and SMC DUAL.. most of us for homdmade setups can run SMC+... smc 500 only difference is that you can adjust fuel trimming in 500 increments instead of 1000 that smc+ gives...

read it

spooned out

if this SMC is so good and appears to be cost effective then how come this is the first time i ever heard of this thing? is it new to the market?

2000vsm

it's not new, out for almost 2 years... people never heard it because people are "bandwagon" people, they are lazy *** people who just ask someone "how do i turbo my civic" and they want a "SET" part list, so people just give them the old "FMU, vafc hack etc"

people don't like to learn and just want things done, if they RESEARCHED on things, they would find out about zedyne (sp.) or ghettodyne or SMC>. all those are way better than STOCK injectors and fmu and crap

why in the **** *** world would you run STOCK injectors for 7psi and use a stupid FMU to try to make the 240cc into wannabe 450cc??? just buy 450cc for $50 and get the smc for $115 and THAT'S IT!

and the most important thing is DYNO TUNE.. and smc is so ******* easy to use, you can tune it yourself at dyno, just ask them for a wideband and stick the a/f around 11.5 to 12 MAX and you're done...

2000vsm

and for people who don't read.. you CANNOT use the fmu, missing link, vafc or whatever with the SMC.. the smc does away with all that bullshit...


and for the more stupid people... what the FMU does is raise the fuel pressure per pound of boost.. so if you got 10:1 FMU, it means that every psi you boost, you adding 10psi of fuel pressure

all this is doing is ******* up your stock fuel pump and trying to force more fuel into the injectors.... your 120psi of fuel into 240cc stock injectors DOES NOT EQUAL 450cc injectors..

more fuel pressure DOES NOT necessarily mean better or more fuel... do it right and upgrade injectors and run a decent fuel management controller like SMC or zedyne.

M-EJ1

The SMC still suffers from the same side-effects (fucked up timing, part throttle bucking) as the VAFC hack due to the way it manages the injectors, correct? From my understanding, like another user posted, it does about the same thing (trims the MAP voltage back). Can anyone verify this for me?

2000vsm

go to the website..

yes you need to retard.. but for 7psi... most people that use a msd btm only go 0.25/lb of boost os at 7psi it's about 2degree retard... and stock is 16bdtc.. retard 2 even 4 degrees isn't bad... at 14btdc is still in STOCK VARIATION.. aht at 12.. it's NOT BAD.. i ran 8btdc on N/A setup and it's fine..

the part throttle isn't as bad as you think.. it might buckle a bit but not as much as the other setups..

yes it does trim the map voltage.. that's what it does basically but you don't need fmu and fpr and missing link garbage

RSZero1

How does the set up with just stock everything and blue box run?

Tetsuwan Atomu

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 2000vsm &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">argjh.. why don't u people ever use SMC!!!! SMC lets you use 450cc and THAT'S ALL YOU NEED

why **** around with the FMU, missing link, check valves and fuel pump, FPR riser with "STOCK" 240cc injectors?? and buying a $300 vafc... you guys just trying to destroy the fuel pump with high pressures and your little stock injectors are garbage... get 450cc dsm injectors + smc and THAT'S IT.. no more fmu, fpr, fuel pump, missing link...

it's a win-win-win-win-win situation.. cheaper and more reliable and more REAL power with 450cc.. don't jump on bandwagon like others and do the stupid vafc hack, espeically with stock injectors</TD></TR></TABLE>
lol hardcore SMC guy!!!! You must be the creator of it!

2000vsm

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RSZero1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">How does the set up with just stock everything and blue box run?</TD></TR></TABLE>

that's basically the fmu type of setup... stock injectors are made for 127 flywheel hp N/A civic, not for 170whp+ boosted civic.. engineers would NOT waste money nor does Honda Motor Co. want to give us injectors capable of handling more hp, that's just bad business...

2000vsm

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tetsuwan Atomu &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
lol hardcore SMC guy!!!! You must be the creator of it!</TD></TR></TABLE>

no i'm not, but i found it to be damn better than any other "cheap" setup... i still don't see why people would NOT use the SMC when it gives better, if not the same, results as any those stupid FMU hacks..

i really can't stand it when someone spends 2G on their motor but lack intelligence or hells know what, to upgrade at least the injectors.... STOCK INJECTORS ARE FOR STOCK MOTORS... you'll blow it up

disguy409

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 2000vsm &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yes smc is just like a VAFC (without the fancy dancy display and the vtec controlling portion) but acts as a missing link and fuel controller.. way better than the vafc hack.. smc is no HACK..

</TD></TR></TABLE>

how is the smc way better than the vafc hack??? smc is no hack??? it does exactly the same thing as the vafc hack. do you actually know what the vafc hack is? no fmu and no missing link. just vafc and 450cc injectors.

shermanyang

iTrader: (1)

sorry to bust your bubble 2000vsm but with the S-AFC or V-AFC you have more options to play with than the smc. why do you think a bunch of people with factory turbo charged cars buy these?!? must mean something huh? bet you didn't know you could also run a 3bar map sensor with the AFC hack as well by messing with the sensor input/output allowing you to surpass that 10.65 psi limit. it might not be much but it's better than nothing. i was able to run 13 psi with the hack running a 3 bar map and it made a hell of a difference.

CRXRageD

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 2000vsm &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">and for people who don't read.. you CANNOT use the fmu, missing link, vafc or whatever with the SMC.. the smc does away with all that bullshit...


and for the more stupid people... what the FMU does is raise the fuel pressure per pound of boost.. so if you got 10:1 FMU, it means that every psi you boost, you adding 10psi of fuel pressure

all this is doing is ******* up your stock fuel pump and trying to force more fuel into the injectors.... your 120psi of fuel into 240cc stock injectors DOES NOT EQUAL 450cc injectors..

more fuel pressure DOES NOT necessarily mean better or more fuel... do it right and upgrade injectors and run a decent fuel management controller like SMC or zedyne.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Damn, I thought I had a bad temper. Hell, I would look into the SMC for the guy that wants to by my old setup. He needs fuel management.

ion_four

sherman, it's true that you may have more tunability with the afc (depending on what version of the SMC), but most people (including me) take little advantage of it. I would suggest using J. Davis' or Filetofit's circuits (as I used to) before wasting money on the afc. The only reason I am using the afc is that a buddy of mine has had his car in the garage for about a year and is letting me use his. Soon, I will be chipping my ecu (within f#cking days) and timing will be satisfactory...so, spend $20 at the shack and be done with it!

2000vsm

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by shermanyang &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">sorry to bust your bubble 2000vsm but with the S-AFC or V-AFC you have more options to play with than the smc. why do you think a bunch of people with factory turbo charged cars buy these?!? must mean something huh? bet you didn't know you could also run a 3bar map sensor with the AFC hack as well by messing with the sensor input/output allowing you to surpass that 10.65 psi limit. it might not be much but it's better than nothing. i was able to run 13 psi with the hack running a 3 bar map and it made a hell of a difference.</TD></TR></TABLE>

yes i know what options it has... mind you i'm a vertern in a lot of stuff, i HAD a vafc before, i know what things it can do,.. reason why I don't have it anymore cuz it's useless for me....

and maybe people don't want to run more than 7psi, screw the 3bar map sensor.. if i only spent $900 on my whole turbo setup, that's it, i'm not going to run more than 175whp... reason for SMC is that it takes away all those unecessary stuff..

if you run at 7psi, and NOT plan to upgrade.. smc is way better... $140 only, but vafc you gotta have these: vafc $250, fmu $120, fpr $70?, missing link $60

plus as i said before, SMC lets you use REAL 450cc... i don't see why people hate 450cc...

and if you intend to upgarde boost.. damn it buddy get 450cc, don't be stupid and use 240cc for 13psi! my god, you're just asking the engine to blow up on you.

kine462

i run a smc dual and compared to an afc, it almost better. it has a threshold you can program so the ecu won't see past a certain voltage. it has it's little bugs just like everything else, but for the price you can't beat it.

RSZero1

Okay there seems to be some confusion, the AFC non hack I'm referring to is here posted liam821 https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=137901

This is where the VAFC is hooked up normally with an unlimited map sensor, no FMU and no check valves.

All it is is the VAFC wired normally, with DSM 450 injectors and a 89 CRX si resistor box - the VAFC is just set to -40% through the band or adjusted +-5% as rpm increases.

M-EJ1

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 2000vsm &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">vafc you gotta have these: vafc $250, fmu $120, fpr $70?, missing link $60</TD></TR></TABLE>

Uhh... the whole point of the VAFC hack is that you don't need all that stuff. VAFC and some 440 or 450cc injectors, that's it. Maybe you're confused or something, but the SMC uses the same method to drive the larger injectors as the VAFC hack does.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 2000vsm &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">plus as i said before, SMC lets you use REAL 450cc... i don't see why people hate 450cc...</TD></TR></TABLE>

What? Hold on hold on hold on... back the truck up. Are you trying to say that the SMC is the ONLY way to utilize 450cc injectors? Damn, maybe I'm just crazy, but last I checked my car has 450cc injectors in it... and I'm not using an SMC. Also, I'm pretty sure people here don't hate 450cc injectors (?) as a good percentage of them are, infact, using them with other methods of fuel control than the SMC.

Now, after that, yes, the SMC is a nice device. But it's implementation is not in anyway superior to the VAFC hack. They both do the same thing, neither is technically superior, the SMC is just cheaper and doesn't have all the fancy bells and whistles that the VAFC has, and it's designed specifically for the purpose, while the VAFC hack is really just that, a hack of pre-existing equipment. Both can be used to control 450cc injectors by trimming the MAP voltage.

In response to the original post. I would stick with the bluebox and save my money for something better in terms of fuel management. The VAFC hack and it's brother SMC are not good ways of managing fuel. They are cheap and somewhat effective, but both include nasty timing advance and both suffer from driveability problems because they make the car buck/stutter at partial throttle. Also, if you use DSM 450cc injectors as talked about elsewhere, you may or may not find that your car is hard to start when it's warm (more specifically, when it's warm from idling before shutting down, like would be the case with a turbo timer). I have to push the throttle in when my car is warm or else it literally won't start at all. I've heard various theories on this including different versions of the 450cc injectors being different resistances, the injectors being dirty, or just plain intolerable to heat. What it boils down to is that the MAP sensor voltage hack (VAFC hack and SMC) is just that... a hack. It's cheap and it works, but not as well as other options.

(It IS however superior to the "mechanical" method, which is a rising rate fuel pressure regulator and a higher flow pump. Raising the fuel pressure to get more fuel fed into the motor with stock injectors is just plain wacky if you're going to run anything more than 5 or 6 psi, IMO)

disguy409

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 2000vsm &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

yes i know what options it has... mind you i'm a vertern in a lot of stuff, i HAD a vafc before, i know what things it can do,.. reason why I don't have it anymore cuz it's useless for me....

</TD></TR></TABLE>

You are either a true dumbass or just a liar... Don't tell people to do their research when you obviously haven't done so yourself.

Bailhatch

did anyone read the 'customer review' section on the SMC site. I'm pretty sure it was all written by one guy. The device seems useful but the website seems shady, like they won't say that all it does is alter the MAP voltage per RPM....

scttydb411

i use the hack and it works for me. all you need is safc/vafc, 450cc dsm inj, resistor box, and new seal kit. it's cheap this way. you can use the smc and save a little bit more money, but isn't the smc just the old version of the non-digital safc, but with more rpm adjustments? i personally like having the safc so i can at least check it once in awhile to compare what it's reading with my other gauges and the digital adjustment vs. dials.

...and i know the safc is more expensive than a smc, but you can find safc used for cheap. i got mine for 100. i spent 200 on my fuel hack total...if you count my btm just over 300...how's that for cheap?