D-Rob

'Morning, fella's.

I know we have discussed the Walbro 450lph a few times in here, but I had a chance yesterday to really crank one up, and I think I found the upper limits of it.



The setup:

Stock sleeve K20A2
Arias pistons, 9:1, 86.5mm
Eagle H-Beam rods
ARP head studs
Prayoonto Stage 2 cams
SuperTech valvetrain
Xcessive intake manifold
JDL sidewinder exhaust manifold
Precision 6766, JB, .82AR, v-band inlet exhaust housing

The fuel system consists of:

Walbro 450lph E85 pump (part number F90000267)
10AWG power wire to the battery with a 50-amp relay
8AN feed line, 6AN return line
Fuel Injector Development 2,000cc injectors
Aeromotive regulator
Pump E85 from Sheetz

We previously ran this engine at a base fuel pressure of 43psi, and ran out of injector duty in the 750whp range @ 25psi of boost.

Yesterday, we cranked the base pressure to 65psi and retuned. Here are the results.



826whp / 548wtq @ 32psi dropping to 30psi up top.

At the 32psi range, fuel pressure starting falling, as evidenced by the implausible fuel curve (demanding significant amounts of injector duty, not following the already-established fuel curve), and AFR's started an upward climb no matter how much fuel was thrown at it in the calibration.

This is the furthest I have taken one of these pumps, and was extremely impressed with it. I have been recommending this pump to my clients for a while now, and this is another testament to why.

I have stated in the past how important I feel proper current supply to these pumps are; if you want to do this stuff with these pumps, give them big wiring and a big relay!

Thanks guys!

- Derek

dom1013

Man, that's like absolutely perfect for what I've been looking into lately! I definitely didn't want to hang (2) 450s if I didn't have to, to reach the goal of about 600hp with 2000cc's.

I wonder how this would play out in my set-up(Benson 84mm block w/cammed LS Head)...can't wait to leave work so I can actually see the images! >.<

boosted94gsr

Very nice and informative like always. Thanks for sharing.

LightningTeg

Badass. I wonder what they'll do on my 1400's. I'm going to set them at 55psi base

supersilverdc2

awesome gj

rico892002

Good **** bro!! Give me a lot of hope!! Chris I guess I'm going for 800wheel? Lmao!

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

That's nothing short of incredible

LightningTeg

I made numbers in sig with 1400's and room to go you should be fine.

king06

iTrader: (1)

How did you like the injectors?

riceball777

I also have the same pump on my s2000. It makes 620whp on e85 with no issues. I know of a few s2000 at 700whp on this pump on e85 and stock fuel lines with no issue.

How do you like your fid 2000cc injectors? I had those and I felt that they ran horrible at idle and part throttle. And they were junk for pump gas but even on e85 it did not run too good.

LightningTeg

Honestly I noticed no change in "feel" from my PTE1000's. Tuned easy, no issues. Five'Oh Motorsports Black ops 1400's.

NVturbo

Damn!!! 826WHP is straight up REDONKULOUS.

extremeracer

Thanx D-Rob, informative and educational as always.

Other than the fuel pump's performance, the thing that impresses me of this setup is Eagle Rods *shock*. Makes me re-think pulling the Eagles out of my B series currently at 600whp in favour of Pauters.

That setup really impresses with its simplicity and solid 800whp numbers

the_unknown

Very nice numbers and thanks for sharing the info. Just curious though, and this is a serious question I am NOT bagging on you at all, how does it feel with less than 250whp/tq until after 5250rpm? Is the powerband usable at all? I am sure this is likely why the engine is still in one piece but just curious how it drives. I am sure those Eagles wouldnt like too much torque too early..

D-Rob

As with any of these setups, they're designed to operate in the range that Honda targets naturally; 6,000rpm to 9,000rpm. On a shift at 9,200rpm, it never falls below 5,500rpm, so for the drag racing/roll racing intended, the curve matches pretty well.

I will say the car is an absolute rocket on the street. It has an Albins gearset, 235/50/15 R888's, boost-by-gear, and Hondata Traction Control, and all work VERY well in conjunction with one another. The car is responsive (as long as you're in the right gear), and makes boost quickly on throttle tip-in after an up shift.

This car holds 500hp in 2nd gear (which goes to 87mph), 750hp in third (which goes to 124mph), and all 820hp in fourth (which goes to 160mph) with nothing more than one or two blips from the traction control in second on the onslaught of power.

The powerband of this car is actually quite good for an 800hp Honda at 2 liters of displacement.

scmil95eg

+1
This pump draws more current that most Weldons. Especially at higher pressures.

Trying to make mathematical sense of the pump + your results (definitely not questioning your results), from your experience what would you guess BSFC is on this car?

rico892002

Drob 6 speed or 5speed tranny?

D-Rob

BSFC is something that's hard to judge on a lot of applications, especially when ignition timing advance plays a large role (like this car picked up 40whp at the same boost from ignition timing advance at the 26psi boost level, which would skew that BSFC estimate).

To quote a man far more intelligent than I:

" There are two sources of error inherent in BSFC based fuel flow calculations. First, BSFC is a rarely measured parameter which few will have access to, and second, being a measure of efficiency, it is dependent on any factor that would affect the overall efficiency of the engine. For instance, a high boost engine running pump gas may require 10-15 degrees less ignition advance than the same engine running race gas. This reduction in timing, and the corresponding reduction in power will have a direct and proportional effect on fuel efficiency, or BSFC. For the reasons stated above, fuel flow calculations based on an estimated BSFC value are so error prone, that the are often meaningless." - Paul Yaw of Injector Dynamics

scmil95eg

Oh I get it, and I know Paul is extremely intelligent. I've read and referenced his yaw power articles for over 10 years now. But to counter his two points; A) some of us do and B) you have to presume the engine is tuned to its optimum efficiency (timing and afr at mbt) for a bsfc conversation to be relevant.

But I guess the real motivation to my question was twofold: I know you're smart too so I was curious to hear your guess, and from the flow tests I've seen 800+ on e85 is really awesome power for that pump.

the_unknown

Thanks for taking the time, I really appreciate the detail. Having never ridden in a fast turbo honda I have no frame of reference but would love to build one some day. I just didn't know if it was like....

nothing....nothing....nothing..nothing...barely moving...barely moving...then half a second of...HOLYSHITWTFLMAOBBQ.... then shift...

Seen it before which is why I ask. Your rep far precedes you and I knew you wouldn't build something like that so that is why I asked. Had I not thought you were going to give me a proper answer I wouldn't have bothered.

pzco

What is your relay setup? Currently installing one myself.

B_Swapped93

may sound dumb, but are you using your stock tank(sumped or not) ?

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

this car has a stock tank.

the 450 is not an external inline fuel pump, it's an intank unit. It won't work with anything external like a sumped OEM tank or bottom rear sumped fuel cells. You would need something like a fuel safe or ATL fuel cell that supports an intank pump

ArniFPR

i just relay wired this pump in my car but i used a 30 amp relay, should i go bigger?

APG-HATCH

Would i be able to hit 650whp with this same pump and id1000?