crucian

Im not making this tread to talk about how much power each turbo makes or whatever. But I keep hearing all this hype about the spool up time of the GT ball bearing turbos spooling so much faster than the non-BB turbos.
Now to what happened. The other night I setup a race between me and a VR6 powered wagon (him being one of the fastest cars on that strip). I have a 1.6L stock bore and stroke 2000 honda civic SI sporting a SC61. And by the topic you know he has a GT30R.
This is how the races go on the street here in Germany. Go from a roll, and just who ever guns it you gun it too. No honks or nothing. But my thing was I didnt realize that the guy in the VR6 was gunning it. I could hear his turbo but his **** took for ever to start pulling. So he would always get the jump on me. We raced 3 times and the first 2 times I would have to play catchup. But the last time I just said to hell with it. I got the lil civic to 7000rpms and just gunned it. Been that his took so long to spool I just left him like he was standing still and kept pulling away. I think he was running like 1 or 2 more PSI than me also.
I must add though, you have to give the SC61 a lot of RPMs if you want it to launch quick. My thing is, his spool time did not impress me at all. Anyone care to explain what might have happen? By the way, he was highly suprized when I told him I had a 1.6L.

nsxmatt

Two different cars, motors, turbos, drivers, tunes, fuel systems, ect.

There is no way you could ever start to compare the two just based on a shady roll-on race between two cars.

igo4bmx

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nsxmatt &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Two different cars, motors, turbos, drivers, tunes, fuel systems, ect.

There is no way you could ever start to compare the two just based on a shady roll-on race between two cars. </TD></TR></TABLE>

agreed

alpha

This is by far the worst comparison I have ever read on Honda-Tech. How can you ... Ah! I'm going to stop here.

crucian

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 0x64 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">This is by far the worst comparison I have ever read on Honda-Tech. How can you ... Ah! I'm going to stop here.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Hold up. I am not trying to say one turbo is better than the other. I was just suprised that his turbo didnt really spool up as fast as everyone on Honda-tech always talk about. And you are right, 2 different cars tunes etc. Him having a bigger motor 2.8l vs. a 1.6l he should have spooled right away. He himself was wondering how the heck my motor could spin my turbo so fast. Dont hate on me cause Im not on the BB band wagon. Well actually, I was about to jump on it! Well I guess paying the extra hundreds of dollars is not worth it to me.

alpha

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by crucian &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Hold up. I am not trying to say one turbo is better than the other. I was just suprised that his turbo didnt really spool up as fast as everyone on Honda-tech always talk about. And you are right, 2 different cars tunes etc. Him having a bigger motor 2.8l vs. a 1.6l he should have spooled right away. He himself was wondering how the heck my motor could spin my turbo so fast. Dont hate on me cause Im not on the BB band wagon. Well actually, I was about to jump on it! Well I guess paying the extra hundreds of dollars is not worth it to me.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Actually you are trying to say one turbo is better than another. Ball bearing band wagon? There is nothing band wagon about ball bearing. It's proven. The BB GT turbochargers cost a pretty penny due to the R&D, wheels and ball bearing center sections. You honestly think a GT30R on a 2.8 liter motor with a good flowing head, ideal exhaust, etc. would spool slower than an SC61 with a T350 turbine wheel on the same motor with the same setup? Not going to happen.

alpha

Since we are comparing all kinds of setups, motors, curb weights, etc. Here are a couple dyno sheets from Jeff Evans.

Car: Nissan S13

Engine: Redtop SR20det engine swap, Tomei stage 1 cams, Tomei rocker arm stoppers

Mods: EL manifold, gt2871rs .64a/r housing internal gate, 3" dp, 3.5" exhaust, 2.5" charge pipes, custom front mount intercooler, 550cc injectors, Power FC Ljetro (MAF based)

Tuning on pump gas:


Solid lines are 16psi, dotted lines are 12psi. Clutch started slipping past this boost level. The headgasket needs to be upgraded to an aftermarket metal version, along with a new clutch, larger injectors (at 85-90% duty cycle) and .86a/r turbine housing.

Car: S14 Nissan

Engine: Bone stock redtop s13, greddy knock-off intake manifold

Mods: FR manifold, tial 40mm wg, t3/t67, 2.5" FR charge pipes, FR intercooler, 3" dp, 4" exhaust, Accel 72lb/hr injectors, FR fuel rail, aeromotive fpr, Apexi Power FC

Tuning at 10psi pump gas:


Car: Integra GSR

Engine: Bone stock gsr, stock IM, stock tb

Mods: FR stage 1 GT kit, 3" thermal exhaust, no cat, 550cc injectors, walboro 255lph fuel pump, turbo xs dual stage boost controller, neptune

Tuning at 6psi and 10psi pump gas:


Dotted lines represent torque and horsepower on 6psi of boost, solid lines represent torque and horsepower at 10psi of boost. Neptune is being used to switch from low to high boost settings with the dual stage turbo xs controller between 2nd and 3rd gear shift for traction.

Car: Integra GSR

Engine: Bone Stock GSR long block, Cometic 0.074" thick headgasket, arp head studs, edelbrock IM, hondata IM gasket, FR cam gears

Mods: FR stage 1 kit, RC 750cc injectors, walboro 255lph fuel pump, 3" thermal exhaust, 3bar map sensor, NepTune

Tuning at 9psi, 93 octane

alpha

Let's compare another apple's to orange's big dog's setups.

Car: Integra

Engine: AEBS sleeves, 83mm, 9:1 CP pistons, eagle rods, GSR block/crank, P72 Alaniz head, CTR cams, Edelbrock IM, 75mm tb, golden eagle cam gears

Mods: Precision gt4067 .68a/r t4, 4" dp, 4" open exhaust, tial 44mm wg, dumptube under oil pan, custom 3" IC piping, precision large intercooler piping, tial bov, RC 1000cc injectors, -10 a.n fuel lines, aeromotive fpr, aeromotive "eiminator" fuel pump, quad stage boost controller, msd digital 6, msd HVC II coil, neptune

Tuning at c16 at 35psi:


The next one is on a hurt turbo that failed after a couple weeks. Would make 38lbs peak and drop to 32lbs.

Car: EG Civic coupe

Engine: 2.0L ERL sleeved and built engine, Crower rods, JE 84mm 9:1 pistons, OEM bearings, oil pump, water pump, and timing belt, Headgames ported GSR head, Full Manley valvetrain, Type R cams, Full Race cam gears, Full Race IM, Mustang throttle body

Modifications: Full Race top mount manifold, GT40R .85a/r housing, 4" dp, 4" aluminum exhaust, Full Race custom backdoor PWR intercooler, 3" chargepipes, Tial 44mm wg, Tial BOV, Precision 1000cc injectors, sumped OEM fuel tank, Aeromotive a1000 pump, -10 feed and return lines, Aeromotive FPR, custom Full Race fuel rail, Exedy twin disk

Tuning at 38psi, c16

nsxmatt

00IntegrAllmotoR

iTrader: (1)

hahahaha funny **** ^^^^^^^^^

tony1

I've got a car in my shop right now, vr6 with an sc61, and it spools great. I can't even imagine how good a gt30 would spool on that big motor!

alpha

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I've got a car in my shop right now, vr6 with an sc61, and it spools great. I can't even imagine how good a gt30 would spool on that big motor! </TD></TR></TABLE>

Is your customer going to allow you to post pictures of that And I would hope it's a GT30R with the larger A/R on the turbine housing with a ported shroud compressor cover.

tony1

I'll post lpics when it's all finished, waiting on the Shimmel Performance intake manifold for it. Should be in tomorrow. And it has an sc61, not the gt30. It's a 6176s.

alpha

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'll post lpics when it's all finished, waiting on the Shimmel Performance intake manifold for it. Should be in tomorrow. And it has an sc61, not the gt30. It's a 6176s. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Good stuff. I meant the VR6 the original posted was talking about

crucian

Ok, 0x64, I read over my first post to see where I said one turbo was better than the other. Still cant see it. I only compared it when people starting posting negatively after the first post. But thanks for taking other people's graph and posting it. Next time if you have your own stuff to post, please feel free. I was only posting a situation that I experienced and was asking why that happened because I was thinking about getting a BB turbo also. Not for someone to come on here trying to criticize me over something that I posted. You know what, if it makes you feel any better, I will change my story just for you. Ok here we go:

Man, that GT30R spooled so fast on the VR6 and he spanked the **** out of me. (Feel better now)?

By the way, he payed over 1200 Euro for that turbo. You go find a coversion calculator and convert that. See what you get.

Another thing, I've seen all those graphs that you posted more than 3 times before so basically, you just wasted your time. But thanks for trying to convince me to buy a BB. You could be a good sales man one day. Keep up the good work though. Now I can really see why I dont post on this board anymore. Someone always trying to criticize another man instead of helping.

nsxmatt

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by crucian &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Another thing, I've seen all those graphs that you posted more than 3 times before so basically, you just wasted your time. But thanks for trying to convince me to buy a BB. You could be a good sales man one day. Keep up the good work though. Now I can really see why I dont post on this board anymore. Someone always trying to criticize another man instead of helping. </TD></TR></TABLE>

We told you the answer pinhead, two completely different unknown setups and drivers on a shady roll on race. Your going to use that as a basis for not buying a BB turbo?? He posted proof with dyno graphs from expert builders and tuners on the same motor and on the same calibrated dyno. What more do you want?? That's your answer if you would pay attention.

Why did your friend spool slower? Who knows, he sucks and didn't downshift, his tune sucks and it was loading up with fuel, he lies on his setup, he was getting road head and wasn't paying attention, who cares! You'll only be happy with the answer ... "BB turbos are no better". So there you go

crucian

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 0x64 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Actually you are trying to say one turbo is better than another. Ball bearing band wagon? There is nothing band wagon about ball bearing. It's proven. The BB GT turbochargers cost a pretty penny due to the R&D, wheels and ball bearing center sections. You honestly think a GT30R on a 2.8 liter motor with a good flowing head, ideal exhaust, etc. would spool slower than an SC61 with a T350 turbine wheel on the same motor with the same setup? Not going to happen.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I can go back and ask him what he had done to his motor if it makes you feel any better. Cause it really seems like this is bothering you. It will have to be next Friday though cause that's when we go out there. They wanted me to go back yesterday to race against another fast car. They said it was the fastest car out there besides the VR6 dude, but I couldn't make it had to pick up new born son from hospital.

crucian

Thanks MATT you are the man!!!! But then again your first post had some negative comments in it didnt it? But you are still the man!!! Thanks for answering. My point is all the negative comments could have been left out from the beginning.
Let us go back dissect what you said with your first post:

"Two different cars, motors, turbos, drivers, tunes, fuel systems, ect.
There is no way you could ever start to compare the two just based on a SHADY roll-on race between two cars."

Yes, yes, you just had to use that statement. Shady race.... Oh boy... Ok Im done man... Moral of the story is, his **** did not spool like I thought it would. He got spanked. You can post all the graphs and **** in the world, but it all comes down to what you said in your 1st and last post Matt without all the negative comments ofcourse. Thanks again bro!

nsxmatt

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by crucian &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Thanks MATT you are the man!!!! But then again your first post had some negative comments in it didnt it?:

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Shady = As in unknown speeds, gears, roads, conditions. Uncontrolled testing bed for acceleration tests.

That wasn't negative, that was the truth. The second post was negative because your being a smartass after posting a useless post and people posting facts that you ignore or just can't understand.

alpha

I'm not trying to sell you on ball bearing. Buy whatever turbo you like. Point is ball bearing units, especially those with GT wheels, are superior to journal bearing turbochargers. The VR6 you ran obviously had a problem with his car or driving. I paid $1,010.00 shipped for my GT3076RLE. Again, ball bearing &gt; journal bearing.

alpha

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nsxmatt &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Shady = As in unknown speeds, gears, roads, conditions. Uncontrolled testing bed for acceleration tests.

That wasn't negative, that was the truth. The second post was negative because your being a smartass after posting a useless post and people posting facts that you ignore or just can't understand.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Exactly.

TurboJesse

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'll post lpics when it's all finished, waiting on the Shimmel Performance intake manifold for it. Should be in tomorrow. And it has an sc61, not the gt30. It's a 6176s. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Nice...My brother has a fully built 3L vr6 with a 35r and custom intake manifold i built. (the shimmel won't fit in a corrado.) I just finished a tubular top mount for him and switching to something bigger...maybe 40r...the 35r spools VERY fast.