SIXTY-1HATCH

Alright fully built b18c1 piston rod setup with fully built head, valves springs retainers, all fresh from the maching shop.
valve seals were replaced along with valve job
since the day i fired the motor it has been smoking blue at odd times, mainly on decel and transitioning into boost.
The car doesn't smoke that bad on start up you can hardly tell the difference from smoke and steam on start up, but the second you give it gas right after that youll see smoke.
Compression came back 180 across the board and leakdown was 10% across the board motor seems to be in excellent health
with that said i have narrowed it down to oil rings, turbo, or valve seals the motor has bout 475 miles on it IT IS TUNED 100% since day one
i checked the other night after a cruise any i am consuming a large amount of oil like a full quart if i go boostin all night, can a turbo or valve seals use the much oil???i also have a catch can setup, but i definately do not have a quart in my catch can maybe a 1/4 of a quart and it hasn't taken any more
help diagnos me

CustomX113

pull the i/c pipe off and check to see if theres oil residue in it

Flamenco-T

The whole purpose of leakdown test is to narrow down the actual problem. What you said in regards to oil rings, valve seals and etc can be done with a compression test.

Do your leakdown again and this time, watch for air leaking noises (hissing noise). When you do number 1, if you hear the air is leaking thru the other cylinder, then you have a problem with oil rings not sealing.

If you hear the air leaking from the TB (opened), that means your INTAKE valve seals is worn out. If you hear the air leaking from the exhaust side (muffler, downpipe and etc), that means your exhaust valve seals are wearing out.

with 10% leakdown, you should be able to pin point the problem easily and accurately.

stan

tony1

Valve seals, turbo oil seals, and usually oil rings will not show up on compression or leakdown tests...

I'd check the downpipe and intecooler pipe for oil. If both are dry, then it's likely in the motor. Valve seals usually smoke on decel.

ExVtec

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Valve seals, turbo oil seals, and usually oil rings will not show up on compression or leakdown tests...

I'd check the downpipe and intecooler pipe for oil. If both are dry, then it's likely in the motor. Valve seals usually smoke on decel.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Then what are you saying, only way to tell is to pull the motor?

SIXTY-1HATCH

ok i checked all that when doin leakdown and my engine builder said it prob wouldn't pick up oil rings unless they are severly damaged, but still i pulled dipstick where the oil enters the motor and opend throttle body but nothing, like i said the motor "seems" healthy and it should be, being freshly rebuilt.
i did pull piping off forgot to mention that and there is NO oil at all anywhere???
**** is crazy and driving me crazy, i called garrett this morning and talked to a tech that seemed very knowledgeable and said these turbos have a piston type deal as the seal and crank pressure could be backing the turbo up, but i did buy the turbo used so i am gonna send it to him to check said he could have it back to me in days, pretty good imo, so i think i am gonna try that, but my crank ventilation should be goo i have the valve cover nipple goin to filtered catch can along with ONE fitting on the back of the block to catch can i just ordered more fittings so i am gonna try adding the other freezeplug fitting like endyn reccomends and see if that helps any.
Tony1 you seem really knowledgeable, does that can setup seem ok, i have pcv anywhere i thought it should be good from the threads i read.
what do you guys think, btw it's a t3 60-1 garrett turbo

tony1

If the turbo is dry, i'd pull the manifolds and look for oil dripping down the valve guides and valves and look for oil in the ports. If the ports are dry, then i'd pull a piston out and find out what was done wrong.

I had a fresh motor come in my shop that was smoking like crazy, come to find out the builder left out a spacer that went under the oil rings. They were ross pistons and the wristpin was up in the rings, and they needed a seperate ring that went under the bottom oil ring to keep the ring stable. It was left out and it smoked really bad.

SIXTY-1HATCH

also if its burning in the downpipe like the guy at garrett said it's gonna be dry from running the motor, but i drove the car open down pipe to my welders and then had him add a flex pipe for my exhaust and when i took the vband clamp off there was nothing in dp either??
crazy i woul hate to pull the motor for something that i don't know what it is, ill start with sending the turbo out first, since that will make me feel better having it inspected and go from there hope for the best and it be turbo or valve seals, but usually the easy **** never goes wrong, my luck, what can you do though **** happend when you wanna go fast

tony1

If it's burning in the exhaust housing or downpipe, it'll still be wet when you pull it apart. I've seen it plenty of times, it won't burn it all, it'll look wet.

SIXTY-1HATCH

well maybe ill take a look tonight when i pull the turbo off, also is it normal to have some "wet" on the top of the piston i did notice that the top of the piston(s) not sure ill have to look again to see which ones but there was wet spots not covered but little patch or wet on the top, is this normal, if not i would say it's valve seals leaking

SIXTY-1HATCH

Well figuredid post this in case someone searches this, but i think i found my problem.
I pulled my turbo and manifold off everything looks good just usual exhaust and carbon, no oil, although the downpipe did look like sumone splashed sumthing in there but it was all dry so that could have been oil, but in the head looking at the exhaust ports every cylinder look nice and smoothly covered with black exhaust soot, except cyl #2 it looks like **** it's not smooth with carbon buildup and cracking everywhere, i dunno if it's normal but it doesn't look like any other cylinder. Not that the heads cracked just the way it looks.Now before i built this motor is was "supposed" to be honed out good cuz there was 2 black marks on one cylinder wall from the previous setup, and if i had to guess i would say it's that cylinder
now i gotta rip apart this pile of **** just to hear my builder run his mouth, oh well at least i get new parts and figured out my prob, well hopefully

SOHC_MShue

you might wanna try the valve seals first..just something easier to replace.

SOHC_MShue

Also tony1 what rings will usually go bad first when detonation is present? I'm assuming the compression rings right? So are bad oil rings normally due to a bad engine build or a straight worn out motor?

SIXTY-1HATCH

yea thats what i was wonderin too but even when tunin the car never once detnated or anything thr "worst" are fuel that wwe hit was 12:5 and that aint ****, i am gonna say sumthin is fucked up in cyl 2 since it doen't seem to "match" the other ports, but like he said what would normally be the fisrt ring to go, in my case if it is oil ring i dunno why it failed, looks like my machinest is getting the block back this weekend......................through his front window

92redhatch

you know your valve seals are bad when the car smokes in the morning because over night the oil seaps through the seals and onto the pistons. If it doesnt smoke in the morning than the problem is not your valve seals. 100%

SIXTY-1HATCH

Yea i think i am gonna rule out valve seals, unless maybe for one cylinder i wish i could post pics but i dunno how so...
It's either a problem with something in cyl# 2 or my turbo smokes but everything is so clean and i found oil nowhere so i dunnno.
Im leaning more towards sumthin bein fucked up from the oil ring on cyl#2 since that should be my worse case senario but ill find out tommarrow when i pull the head off and check out the cylinder walls. Like i said # 2 cylnder only has a black plug unlike the others where they look usual, this one is covered in soot like black **** and that port looks kinda out of place compared to the others.

SIXTY-1HATCH

Another thing that is wierd as opposed to every other setup i have had is if i fill the oil up all the way drive the car around and come back let the car sit for like 10 mins check oil it look like i lost a qt but if i let it sit over night the oil level is alot higher like i never needed a qt. I know i need to let the rest of the oil settle but none of my other cars were like this, and the oil gets dirty very fast, as opposed to my ls-turbo setup i had motor was beat to hell but oil stayed clean for a decent while......weird
also the new motor has a moroso streep pan

SOHC_MShue

can you post pics of those ports?

WHTZ

Yea some pics would help you out a lot...

92gsrteg

i had a problem with my new valve seals when i first got my head rebuilt, i had crushed them cause they were super tight from the machine shop and when i had bolted the cams down, it was way tight and on the valves that it was pushin down on in current position, those were the ones that crushed. but anyways, i knew it was valve seals cause it smoked blue smoke for first few minutes of startup and slightly while driving, but when i took off the exhaust manifold, i also saw little bits of oil drooling down from some of the valve seals down to the exhaust ports, after i replaced them everything was good. so check ur ports on exhaust and intake side and stick ur finger up in them so where the seals are and feel for oil, should help

SIXTY-1HATCH

yea well im not a computer guru so i can't post pics, if i get a chance ill try but there is no oil in the ports unless it's burnt and dry oil, there is no "wet" substance in the chambers or anything but for some reason cyl#2 has a fouled plug and more than usual carbon buildup if thats what it is just looks like sutt but more than all the other cylinders, i took off thursday and friday so im pulling this peice of **** back outta the hatch AGAIN and take this **** back to the machine shop, also im dropping my turbo off at ups today and sending it out to be checked rebuilt whatever, at least ill have assurance on my turbo when it comes back