Kirk@SyndromeAuto

I went down to a shop today and was just chatting to my machanic and then this othe machanic came out of know were and was like ya these systems arnt that good. Ive had to make a special breather thing between the intake and the turbo or something so that the vacum was bettter or not enough or something i dono. He said thats why my thing jsut leaks oil.

DOes anyone know what hes talking about because he sounded like he knew what he was talking about and the leaking is whats happening to me I went through 5 gaskets so far and it just leaks again once i put a knew one on. it jsut leaks through some how.

thanx

Kirk@SyndromeAuto

up

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

whatever that mechanic is somking... i want some of it, lol

Kirk@SyndromeAuto

well my oil does leak and i cant figure out it

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

where is it leaking from exactly? have any pics?

Kirk@SyndromeAuto

it leaks from between the seal out of there from the space inbetween the spot were you connext the oil drain line to the actual turbo housing

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

um... if im picturing this correctly... its not your oil return..

the seals on your turbo are shot.. it leaks inbetween the housings and the chra right?

stealthmode62

I have no idea what you are trying to explain, but this question has been swirling around my head for a couple days now. Nobody in the "official crankcase evacuation" thread wanted to discuss it.


The question: With excess pressure built up in the block, does anyone feel that if you don't correctly vent this pressure it could be a cause of turbo smoking issues. (Stay with me) With the drain being gravity fed, and the built up pressure in the block, you could possibly have the oil in the drain being forced back up to the turbo by the excess pressure being forced out whichever way it can. (up your drain line)

As anyone ever pondered this question?

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

i havent thought about it.... but you bring up a very good point. it sounds like a valid theory to me.... now to get someone to test it

stealthmode62

If this was a theory that could actually be a cause of some smoking issues, just think, we'd never have to hear any more topics with these titles:

Should I use a restrictor valve?
Should I have a -3 or -4 feedline?
Why is my turbo smoking?

.....and then the mother of them all:

Should I restrict my smoking turbo with a -3 or -4 feedline. lol

Kirk@SyndromeAuto

no the turbo seals are not gone its a brand new turbo. its garhh i wish i had a picture here ill draw one. not the greatest but the red is the leaking oil.

m R g S r

yea, hook the vaccuum port on your intake manifold right to the oil drain line....it will re-cycle the oil really well....no need to drain back into the pan

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

try some honda bond... maybe the surfaces arent even and the gasket isnt thick enough, or you could try stacking gaskets


stealthmode... you are correct, ive found that most ppl asking those questions doent have adequate crankcase ventilation.... the excess crankcase pressure could be causing the oilto back up in the return line... and since we are on the topic if feed line sizes... what should i run on my pt61

Kirk@SyndromeAuto

i put 2 gaskets this time with liquid gasket stuff and i even sanded the surfaces before puting it on. i havnt tested it yet but im guessing its ganan leak or its ganan blow my turbo seals and start leaking out of there.

stealthmode62

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by wantboost &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

stealthmode... you are correct, ive found that most ppl asking those questions doent have adequate crankcase ventilation.... the excess crankcase pressure could be causing the oilto back up in the return line... </TD></TR></TABLE>

My mind just keeps telling me it's too logical to forget about. I wish instead of having people jumping on the "no use -7 with a restrictor" we could actually be thinking about stuff like this as the problem.

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by stealthmode62 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">thinking</TD></TR></TABLE>


that's the keyword... most ppl on honda-tech dont think, they jump on the first bandwagon to come steaming by the station or they go by what some friend told them.

if everyone on here would actually think about a problem till a solution was found, well we wouldnt have much use for this site anymore, lol

Bailhatch

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by stealthmode62 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

The question: With excess pressure built up in the block, does anyone feel that if you don't correctly vent this pressure it could be a cause of turbo smoking issues. (Stay with me) With the drain being gravity fed, and the built up pressure in the block, you could possibly have the oil in the drain being forced back up to the turbo by the excess pressure being forced out whichever way it can. (up your drain line)
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I think it has some validity. Crankcase pressure sure could slow the draining and with a pressurized feed the extra oil has to go somewhere, so ya it makes sense...

BlueShadow

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by stealthmode62 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> I have no idea what you are trying to explain, but this question has been swirling around my head for a couple days now. Nobody in the "official crankcase evacuation" thread wanted to discuss it.


The question: With excess pressure built up in the block, does anyone feel that if you don't correctly vent this pressure it could be a cause of turbo smoking issues. (Stay with me) With the drain being gravity fed, and the built up pressure in the block, you could possibly have the oil in the drain being forced back up to the turbo by the excess pressure being forced out whichever way it can. (up your drain line)

As anyone ever pondered this question?

</TD></TR></TABLE>

hmmm didn't think about it until you bought it up. Somebody should get a heavy duty pressure gauge and tap the oil pan and see how much pressure is down there. Any volunteers? stealthmode? anyone? hehehe

stealthmode62

I may possibly have a stock D16 victim that is due to go turbo in the coming month or so. I guess I could tap his oil pan and put a gauge on it. At this point it has zero vac./pcv mods from stock.

It may be good to just get an idea of the kinds of pressure the drain could be dealing with though.

BlueShadow

hehehe, good to know you already have a guinea pig lined up. It would be interesting to see what te pressure differences are between a stock car and turbo'ed car.

EDIT: if you do do it, you might wanna use some heavy duty equipment. I dont know how much pressure would be present in the oil pan (if any). A simple vacuum line and some hose clamps might not cut it. Maybe an electric pressure gauge instead of a mechanical one? that way you can just screw in the sender into the oil pan.

Dulluthkid_19

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by stealthmode62 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
The question: With excess pressure built up in the block, does anyone feel that if you don't correctly vent this pressure it could be a cause of turbo smoking issues. (Stay with me) With the drain being gravity fed, and the built up pressure in the block, you could possibly have the oil in the drain being forced back up to the turbo by the excess pressure being forced out whichever way it can. (up your drain line)

As anyone ever pondered this question?

</TD></TR></TABLE>
Good thinking, bud!
To be honest, I was going to reply to this thread with something similar, being a crankcase pressure issue. But you said it perfectly.... for MN boys

Tony the Tiger

Of course crankcase pressure will prevent oil from draining properly. Just by looking at Garrett's common turbocharger diagnostic chart, it lists a faulty crankcase ventiliation system (bad PCC valve, etc...) as a cause for turbo oil drain issue.

And a lot of times I see Honda guys boosting their crankcase by accidentally hooking up the breather tube to the charge pipes. In most cases they start building oil in charge pipes, etc.. and eventually start smoking.

BlueShadow

Somebody needs to come up with a better drain system.

Lately I've been thinking about finding a oil pump that would go between the oil feed inlet and engine. But I havent been able to find an oil pump that could regulate the oil feed pressure. Then again I didn't look very hard.

And this talk about pressure in the crankcase/oil pan preventing the oil from draining got me thinking some more. What an inline fuel pump was used between the turbo drain outlet and oilpan? The inline pump should be able to overcome the crankcase pressure and force the draining oil into the oilpan. An inline fuel pump is 5/16" in and out right? so that's equivalent to about a 6AN line, so it's not a huge step down from a 10 AN gravity feed drain line. I wonder if a fuel pump would even be able to drain oil.

It's early in the morning here and I'm just throwing random ideas out there. But what do you guys think of that idea?

Dulluthkid_19

I think it would be a good patch for the problem of excessive crankcase pressure...but it would be ignoring the root problem which is the pressure itself...What needs to be done is the PCV system has to be modified to be able to handle this extra pressure, it has to be able to evacuate the pressure w/o issue. Endyn knew this, so he created his own crankcase pressure evacuation kit that makes the engine way more reliable.
I just think putting inline pumps and oil pumps to and from the turbo to help the oil flow is putting a band-aid on the root problem. I dont mean to sound like a punk, it's just how I see it.

DaveF

with a properly vented engine, there should be no drain issue's. because all of the exess crankcase pressure would be vented through the catch can system.

on our race car, we have an extra scavenge section, that is sucking oil out of the turbo, it than feeds back into the pan.