Using stock sleeves what size turbo
08-08-2006, 11:30 PM
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Using stock sleeves what size turbo
I am turboing my b16 with built internals Here is my set-up b16a1 bottom end
gsr crank,eagle rods, c.p pistons 9:5.1, z10 block gridle, arp head stods and rod bolts and a Stock b16 head. So what size turbo should I use to make 400hp with out boosting past 18 psi. The turbo I had in mind was a sc61. Also how do i figure out what size A/r use as will.
gsr crank,eagle rods, c.p pistons 9:5.1, z10 block gridle, arp head stods and rod bolts and a Stock b16 head. So what size turbo should I use to make 400hp with out boosting past 18 psi. The turbo I had in mind was a sc61. Also how do i figure out what size A/r use as will.
08-09-2006, 06:46 AM
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Re: Using stock sleeves what size turbo (racer034life)
SC61 is a tad laggy for your goals. Id go t3/t4 57 trim w/ .63 AR turbine OR if you have the money a Garrett GT3076 w/ .63 AR turbine
In general the most popular exhaust sizes for the 300whp+ crowd is the .63 and the .82. I personally would not go .82 with a displacement under 2L. Id definately stick to the .63 on a B16 like yours to keep things spool friendly.
In general the most popular exhaust sizes for the 300whp+ crowd is the .63 and the .82. I personally would not go .82 with a displacement under 2L. Id definately stick to the .63 on a B16 like yours to keep things spool friendly.
08-09-2006, 06:57 AM
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Re: Using stock sleeves what size turbo (racer034life)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by racer034life »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">make 400hp with out boosting past 18 psi.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Who cares about that?
Just get a turbo that will make 400hp.
Who cares about that?
Just get a turbo that will make 400hp.
08-09-2006, 07:14 AM
#4
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Who cares LOL I do cause its my motor. any other turbos i should or shouldnt go after. also what would you all think of a t3 60-1 with the right a/r and trim settings
08-09-2006, 07:27 AM
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Re: (racer034life)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by racer034life »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Who cares LOL I do cause its my motor.</TD></TR></TABLE>
What does 18 psi have to do with... anything?
What does 18 psi have to do with... anything?
08-09-2006, 07:31 AM
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Re: (Joseph Davis)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Joseph Davis »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
What does 18 psi have to do with... anything?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
hahaha..... I think he is worried about his sleeves and thinks that anything over 18psi is going to bust them..
Just turn up the boost
your sleeves will be fine if your only going for 400. Just make sure you have a good tune 
What does 18 psi have to do with... anything?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
hahaha..... I think he is worried about his sleeves and thinks that anything over 18psi is going to bust them..
Just turn up the boost
your sleeves will be fine if your only going for 400. Just make sure you have a good tune
08-09-2006, 07:46 AM
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Re: (BoostedEG6)
Combustion pressure (psi in the combustion chamber) is a function of power output.
"18 psi" is a function of volumetric efficiency aka LIES, and has nothing to do with anything, much less combustion chamber pressure.
Your safety on stock sleeves is going to be di-rectally related to your tune, maintainence, driving habits, blind luck, and how good a diagnostician you are.
"18 psi" is a function of volumetric efficiency aka LIES, and has nothing to do with anything, much less combustion chamber pressure.
Your safety on stock sleeves is going to be di-rectally related to your tune, maintainence, driving habits, blind luck, and how good a diagnostician you are.
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08-09-2006, 08:37 AM
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Re: (Joseph Davis)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Joseph Davis »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Combustion pressure (psi in the combustion chamber) is a function of power output.
"18 psi" is a function of volumetric efficiency aka LIES, and has nothing to do with anything, much less combustion chamber pressure.
Your safety on stock sleeves is going to be di-rectally related to your tune, maintainence, driving habits, blind luck, and how good a diagnostician you are.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Joesph, I suppose you haven't read the new tests that have been completed by Honda engineers. Through a series of strength tests it has now been determined that the break point of a stock B16 sleeve is 18.2psi. The stock Honda sleeves will crack if boosted above this "break point" for more than 20 hours.
.......
"18 psi" is a function of volumetric efficiency aka LIES, and has nothing to do with anything, much less combustion chamber pressure.
Your safety on stock sleeves is going to be di-rectally related to your tune, maintainence, driving habits, blind luck, and how good a diagnostician you are.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Joesph, I suppose you haven't read the new tests that have been completed by Honda engineers. Through a series of strength tests it has now been determined that the break point of a stock B16 sleeve is 18.2psi. The stock Honda sleeves will crack if boosted above this "break point" for more than 20 hours.
.......
08-09-2006, 08:43 AM
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Re: (racer034life)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by racer034life »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Who cares LOL I do cause its my motor. </TD></TR></TABLE>
You are arguing a point that makes as much sense as wanting to buy a yellow Z06, because the yellow ones are faster from the factory, can anyone recommend a good bodyshop so it can be resprayed black?
You are arguing a point that makes as much sense as wanting to buy a yellow Z06, because the yellow ones are faster from the factory, can anyone recommend a good bodyshop so it can be resprayed black?
08-09-2006, 08:44 AM
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For one less then 18 is as much as i want to run. Also i have a stroked b16 so piston to deck height has change a heck of a lot. The tune on this motor will have to be dead on or it will go. So i thinking if i keep boost under 18 and can hit 400 hp i will be good. Im not arguing anything im simply trying to find the best turbo for my motor.
Modified by racer034life at 1:38 AM 8/10/2006
Modified by racer034life at 1:38 AM 8/10/2006
08-09-2006, 08:48 AM
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Re: (racer034life)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by racer034life »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">For one less then 18 is as much as i want to run. Also i have a stroked b16 so piston to deck height has change a heck of a lot. The tune on this motor will have to be dead on or it will go. So i thinking if i keep boost under 18 and can hit 400 hp i will be good. Im not arguing anything im simply trying to find the best turbo for my motor. </TD></TR></TABLE>
....you still don't get it.
How much psi you run is completely irrelevant to your motor "letting go."
....you still don't get it.
How much psi you run is completely irrelevant to your motor "letting go."
08-09-2006, 10:58 AM
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Re: (racer034life)
so let me get this straight, what you all are saying is that psi doesnt matter? are you sure? how can you be certain of this? dont people make 400whp on 2psi from a 42r and its safer? thats what i heard but maybe thats just in utah and not in texas...
edit </sarcasm>
Modified by 93preludes at 4:09 PM 8/9/2006
edit </sarcasm>
Modified by 93preludes at 4:09 PM 8/9/2006
08-09-2006, 11:19 AM
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what it is, is that its HP that breaks motors, not boost. I could make 10 psi on a very small turbo, and only push like 180 hp on a d, where as with a much larger turbo, i could make 10 psi, and make like 240 hp. Of course there will be lag and other things, but the bigger turbo is gonna break the motor becasue of the HP output, not the boost. I could prolly run the smaller turbo for about 2 or 3 yrs. and it still run fine. The bigger turbo would MAYBE run 2 to 3 months.
08-09-2006, 11:27 AM
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Re: (themorphious)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by themorphious »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">what it is, is that its HP that breaks motors, not boost. I could make 10 psi on a very small turbo, and only push like 180 hp on a d, where as with a much larger turbo, i could make 10 psi, and make like 240 hp. Of course there will be lag and other things, but the bigger turbo is gonna break the motor becasue of the HP output, not the boost. I could prolly run the smaller turbo for about 2 or 3 yrs. and it still run fine. The bigger turbo would MAYBE run 2 to 3 months.</TD></TR></TABLE>
not true..... There are many things that could "break" motors, 1 being the tune, 2 being how well the motor has been taken care of and 3 how the person drives
I have never heard someone say "but the bigger turbo is gonna break the motor becasue of the HP output, not the boost" thats a first
a bigger turbo will not break a motor.....
how long the motor will run is not depending on the size either, it goes back to the 3 things i posted
not true..... There are many things that could "break" motors, 1 being the tune, 2 being how well the motor has been taken care of and 3 how the person drives
I have never heard someone say "but the bigger turbo is gonna break the motor becasue of the HP output, not the boost" thats a first
a bigger turbo will not break a motor.....
how long the motor will run is not depending on the size either, it goes back to the 3 things i posted
08-10-2006, 12:57 AM
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Yes!!! I called full-race today to ask them the same question and you are right boostedeg6 its not about the boost its about how the car is tuned. But they did say with one thing. With my motor being stroked a t/3t4 would be fine me or a 60-1 size turbo wth a .57 trim.
08-10-2006, 02:51 AM
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Re: (racer034life)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hotimportcrx »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If i make 200 whp at 135psi ....and 207whp at 150psi......and you make 207 whp at 6psi its the same thing</TD></TR></TABLE>
Not exactly; some turbos are borderline and start blowing hot at their limits; that reduces their knock limit where the engine/setup could otherwise handle more. But, for practical applications, using most popular T04E or larger compressors on a B16 it doesn't matter. For 96% of the applications where the turbo *isn't* undersized, yes, psi doesn't matter.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 93preludes »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">so let me get this straight, what you all are saying is that psi doesnt matter? are you sure? how can you be certain of this? </TD></TR></TABLE>
You are a ******* idiot?
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by racer034life »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">OK i get that. So know i need to know how to size my motor to a turbo. also im running ls length eagle rods</TD></TR></TABLE>
GSR crank, LS rods, B16 deck height. You claim to have room for a ring package? Ri-ight.
This thread sucks.
Not exactly; some turbos are borderline and start blowing hot at their limits; that reduces their knock limit where the engine/setup could otherwise handle more. But, for practical applications, using most popular T04E or larger compressors on a B16 it doesn't matter. For 96% of the applications where the turbo *isn't* undersized, yes, psi doesn't matter.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 93preludes »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">so let me get this straight, what you all are saying is that psi doesnt matter? are you sure? how can you be certain of this? </TD></TR></TABLE>
You are a ******* idiot?
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by racer034life »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">OK i get that. So know i need to know how to size my motor to a turbo. also im running ls length eagle rods</TD></TR></TABLE>
GSR crank, LS rods, B16 deck height. You claim to have room for a ring package? Ri-ight.
This thread sucks.
08-10-2006, 07:07 AM
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Re: (Joseph Davis)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 93preludes »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">edit </sarcasm>
</TD></TR></TABLE>
no jdavis, you are the ******* idiot... i was kidding.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
no jdavis, you are the ******* idiot... i was kidding.
08-10-2006, 11:06 AM
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Re: (Joseph Davis)
I watch for PSI because A. I want my car as a daily driver which can guzzle **** for gass, and B. AFR's should be of a big concern for stock sleevers.
I try to stay around 14psi...18 or so max for stocks, cuz thats treading on thin ice already and for sure to be pushing that and SILL keeping ur AFR's civil (11.5-11.8) youre gonna want 750+ injectors. Or its detonation city, population you.
So for me, yes boost is a big factor, cuz while u can get 400whp out of a GT28, its gonna be @ 20+ psi, a whole lotta hot air, and race gas :D While boost does not kill motors, it certianly demands better injectors, gas and tuning. As a tuning philosophy i always ask myself which turbo will get me closest to my whp mark at X psi of boost. THis is for the dialy drivier.
I try to stay around 14psi...18 or so max for stocks, cuz thats treading on thin ice already and for sure to be pushing that and SILL keeping ur AFR's civil (11.5-11.8) youre gonna want 750+ injectors. Or its detonation city, population you.
So for me, yes boost is a big factor, cuz while u can get 400whp out of a GT28, its gonna be @ 20+ psi, a whole lotta hot air, and race gas :D While boost does not kill motors, it certianly demands better injectors, gas and tuning. As a tuning philosophy i always ask myself which turbo will get me closest to my whp mark at X psi of boost. THis is for the dialy drivier.
08-11-2006, 09:15 AM
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Re: (93preludes)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Joseph Davis »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Not exactly; some turbos are borderline and start blowing hot at their limits; that reduces their knock limit where the engine/setup could otherwise handle more. But, for practical applications, using most popular T04E or larger compressors on a B16 it doesn't matter. For 96% of the applications where the turbo *isn't* undersized, yes, psi doesn't matter.
You are a ******* idiot?
GSR crank, LS rods, B16 deck height. You claim to have room for a ring package? Ri-ight.
This thread sucks.</TD></TR></TABLE>
For one no one asked you to post anything on here..you made that choice. Also have you ever seen a stroker kit. If so then you will see that the dowl in the piston has been movied up. But since you done think im right look it up on honda tech. your smart you will find it.....
You are a ******* idiot?
GSR crank, LS rods, B16 deck height. You claim to have room for a ring package? Ri-ight.
This thread sucks.</TD></TR></TABLE>
For one no one asked you to post anything on here..you made that choice. Also have you ever seen a stroker kit. If so then you will see that the dowl in the piston has been movied up. But since you done think im right look it up on honda tech. your smart you will find it.....
08-11-2006, 11:25 AM
#24
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Re: (racer034life)
[QUOTE=Joseph Davis]
Not exactly; some turbos are borderline and start blowing hot at their limits; that reduces their knock limit where the engine/setup could otherwise handle more. But, for practical applications, using most popular T04E or larger compressors on a B16 it doesn't matter. For 96% of the applications where the turbo *isn't* undersized, yes, psi doesn't matter.
OO yea i know this......for example..on a t3 .42/.48 if you run serious boost on a turbo like that you will be blowing only hot air.....at 22psi for example youll blow so much hot air gas wont be able to cool it and it will ping...and create such high cylinder temps it will melt the piston.
Not exactly; some turbos are borderline and start blowing hot at their limits; that reduces their knock limit where the engine/setup could otherwise handle more. But, for practical applications, using most popular T04E or larger compressors on a B16 it doesn't matter. For 96% of the applications where the turbo *isn't* undersized, yes, psi doesn't matter.
OO yea i know this......for example..on a t3 .42/.48 if you run serious boost on a turbo like that you will be blowing only hot air.....at 22psi for example youll blow so much hot air gas wont be able to cool it and it will ping...and create such high cylinder temps it will melt the piston.
08-11-2006, 11:28 AM
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Re: (fled)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fled »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I watch for PSI because A. I want my car as a daily driver which can guzzle **** for gass, and B. AFR's should be of a big concern for stock sleevers.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Which has nothing to do with power @ psi. ???
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fled »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">while u can get 400whp out of a GT28, its gonna be @ 20+ psi, a whole lotta hot air, and race gas</TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Joseph Davis »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">For 96% of the applications where the turbo *isn't* undersized, yes, psi doesn't matter</TD></TR></TABLE>
Race or pump gas was not a stipulation, anyway.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by racer034life »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Also have you ever seen a stroker kit. If so then you will see that the dowl in the piston has been movied up. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Designing a stroker kit that uses a 3mm longer rod, so that the pin has to be raised not just to accomodate stroke but also an incorrectly chosen rod...
No.
Which has nothing to do with power @ psi. ???
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fled »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">while u can get 400whp out of a GT28, its gonna be @ 20+ psi, a whole lotta hot air, and race gas</TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Joseph Davis »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">For 96% of the applications where the turbo *isn't* undersized, yes, psi doesn't matter</TD></TR></TABLE>
Race or pump gas was not a stipulation, anyway.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by racer034life »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Also have you ever seen a stroker kit. If so then you will see that the dowl in the piston has been movied up. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Designing a stroker kit that uses a 3mm longer rod, so that the pin has to be raised not just to accomodate stroke but also an incorrectly chosen rod...
No.