Used Turbo identification (turbonetics)

 
Old 07-27-2018, 02:21 AM
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Default Used Turbo identification (turbonetics)

Ok i know its probably a classic t3/t04e.
But im not sure about the water cooled CHRA is it can you tell if its Bb or just a JB wet CHRA? I wouldnt buy a used BB turbo like ever.
It will take me a good 1 hour drive to get it and id like your opinions.
Its for a friend and the price is 300 eur.






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Old 07-27-2018, 05:50 AM
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Default Re: Used Turbo identification (turbonetics)

Do you know any of the wheel dimensions? What housing is on it?

Personally I'd never buy a used turbo (again), but I've had my opinion colored by some bad experiences.
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Old 07-27-2018, 06:14 AM
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Default Re: Used Turbo identification (turbonetics)

Well, measurements are a must. You must take the covers off and measure with the wheels are right now. please also check for any serial numbers or stampings on the compressor cover and CHRA

From the way things look, this easily is something within the range of about 300 to 400 wheel horsepower.

honestly, a ball bearing turbo charger that is used is a much better gamble than anything journal bearing. Too many people make the assumption that just because a CHRA is journal bearing, it can simply be internally "rebuilt", and therefore assume there is automatic savings of a lot of cash & headache. When in actuality, the ball bearing units are much more robust from previous owner abuse, and actually have a higher value and utility than any of the journal bearing units. Turbocharger is rarely ever the value of the sum of its parts.
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Old 07-27-2018, 06:46 AM
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Default Re: Used Turbo identification (turbonetics)

at quick glance...
It's really old (over 5 years), that style turbine wheel hasn't been used in quite a while. Anything remotely current would have the F1 style turbine wheel on a "regular" T3, T3/T4, T4 turbo.
It at that point more than likely wouldn't use their "big shaft" rebuild kit
That oil drain gasket backs up oil.
There is usually a serial number sticker on the back plate, the turbine housing a/r size cast into the inside of the turbine inlet, and the turbine wheel size etched into the housing flange surface (you can almost see the 63 on the inside of the housing...unless I'm looking to hard and seeing what isn't actually there)
You'll need to measure the wheels to get "real info" on the sizing
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Old 07-27-2018, 06:53 AM
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Default Re: Used Turbo identification (turbonetics)

Originally Posted by Autoworks View Post
at quick glance...
It's really old (over 5 years), that style turbine wheel hasn't been used in quite a while. Anything remotely current would have the F1 style turbine wheel on a "regular" T3, T3/T4, T4 turbo.
It at that point more than likely wouldn't use their "big shaft" rebuild kit
That oil drain gasket backs up oil.
There is usually a serial number sticker on the back plate, the turbine housing a/r size cast into the inside of the turbine inlet, and the turbine wheel size etched into the housing flange surface (you can almost see the 63 on the inside of the housing...unless I'm looking to hard and seeing what isn't actually there)
You'll need to measure the wheels to get "real info" on the sizing
I'd say that's easily about 10 years + based upon the turbine wheel profile. That looks like a H456 Garrett turbine wheel profile. At a glance, I'm thinking 65mm Turbine inducer (about stage II or stage III in Turbonetics language).
6- splitter blade design with a 3 degree angle of deflection in a T04B compressor cover looks more like it could be in the T3/T04E family. (Turbonetics 10 years ago made specific T04B compressor covers for that family of turbochargers without the need of reprofiling.) So, more than likely a 75mm exducer. This means a high probability of the compressor having about a 54-58mm inducer.
Thread pitch of the oil feed fitting helps determine if this was journal bearing or ball-bearing. But considering that the brass fitting looks like a plumbing parts, in which (7/16-24 wasn't really common), By sheer deduction I'd say it's journal bearing. Very few ball-bearings ever used some sort of plumbing fitting to convert sizes. Mainly the journal bearing versions did.

Not sure of coolant thread pitch. Turbonetics used both 14mm x 1.5 or even 16mm x 1..5 depending upon age.

Time to get those wheel measurements to confirm. Stamp/sticker numbers will give you a guide to what it could be.

Check the Turbonetics section of the following link to browse through the catalogs to find any of those stamps or to confirm measurements. (I suggest staying with 2002 & 2007 catalogs)
STC Turbocharger catalogs
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Old 07-27-2018, 08:34 AM
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Default Re: Used Turbo identification (turbonetics)

Originally Posted by Chance EG View Post
Do you know any of the wheel dimensions? What housing is on it?

Personally I'd never buy a used turbo (again), but I've had my opinion colored by some bad experiences.
I bought like 4-5 used turbos for me and friends. All were cool. BUT i allways checked them before.

Well, measurements are a must. You must take the covers off and measure with the wheels are right now. please also check for any serial numbers or stampings on the compressor cover and CHRA

From the way things look, this easily is something within the range of about 300 to 400 wheel horsepower.

honestly, a ball bearing turbo charger that is used is a much better gamble than anything journal bearing. Too many people make the assumption that just because a CHRA is journal bearing, it can simply be internally "rebuilt", and therefore assume there is automatic savings of a lot of cash & headache. When in actuality, the ball bearing units are much more robust from previous owner abuse, and actually have a higher value and utility than any of the journal bearing units. Turbocharger is rarely ever the value of the sum of its parts.
I know Mac ill get my 13mm and go there as it seems its inevitable I was hoping in VOODOO knowledge from pictures haha.
About used BB turbos i dont know. It makes me nervous because they cannot be repaired here unless you dont have problem with chinese BB replacement cages/parts.
I bought one GTX3076 used some time ago but it was VERY new haha. Like 500kms on it.
The other problem is that allmost noone knows about oil pressure here and a BB CHRA with minor problem not easy to spot is a big threat. Journal bearing well its 90% rebuildable.

at quick glance...
It's really old (over 5 years), that style turbine wheel hasn't been used in quite a while. Anything remotely current would have the F1 style turbine wheel on a "regular" T3, T3/T4, T4 turbo.
It at that point more than likely wouldn't use their "big shaft" rebuild kit
That oil drain gasket backs up oil.
There is usually a serial number sticker on the back plate, the turbine housing a/r size cast into the inside of the turbine inlet, and the turbine wheel size etched into the housing flange surface (you can almost see the 63 on the inside of the housing...unless I'm looking to hard and seeing what isn't actually there)
You'll need to measure the wheels to get "real info" on the sizing
Thanks man. Te dude on the phone said "no sticker" We will know soon.
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Old 07-27-2018, 11:08 AM
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Default Re: Used Turbo identification (turbonetics)

Originally Posted by TheShodan View Post
I'd say that's easily about 10 years + based upon the turbine wheel profile.
I lose track of time w/ how long I've been in this building and a dealer...yeah, 5 was modest. At least 10 is more accurate. They've used F1 wheels for as long as I've been using them and that's been almost 10.

They use(d) 14mm and 16mm water ports, 16mm being more common. The oil inlet port has always been the same w/ that pre filter. I have some dinosaurs here that still have it in there.
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Old 07-27-2018, 11:16 AM
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Default Re: Used Turbo identification (turbonetics)

Originally Posted by Balor_Gr View Post
I bought like 4-5 used turbos for me and friends. All were cool. BUT i allways checked them before.

I know Mac ill get my 13mm and go there as it seems its inevitable I was hoping in VOODOO knowledge from pictures haha.


I tried, but its best for YOU to get that knowledge, so, I linked the info. The problem is translation / language barrier. Many people over in Europe aren't searching with the technically English terminology, and that can cause problems getting real information
Plus, because turbos switch hands like sandwiches over there due to costs, people are willing to do whatever it takes to salvage a unit, even when it's not reasonably possible.


Originally Posted by Balor_Gr View Post
About used BB turbos i dont know. It makes me nervous because they cannot be repaired here unless you dont have problem with chinese BB replacement cages/parts.
Again, information is there, so is the rebuildability. But because of taxes (VAT , Duties) and shipping, you all don't want to ship to even Spain, France, or the U.K. for repair / rebuild, much less the U.S. You don't have anyone there willing to travel to get the knowledge and still deal with the performance market. (There's no money in it). So, you're stuck with the Chinese stuff. If you just become a beacon for the information for others there, (share what you know, like we used to on here), you'll have better luck and utility.

Originally Posted by Balor_Gr View Post
I bought one GTX3076 used some time ago but it was VERY new haha. Like 500kms on it.
The other problem is that allmost noone knows about oil pressure here and a BB CHRA with minor problem not easy to spot is a big threat. Journal bearing well its 90% rebuildable.
You couldn't be more wrong. Only about 30% are actually internally able to be rebuilt, and that doesn't include compressor and turbine wheel/shaft replacements. The way these people are killing these Journal Bearings as of late, (Fusing shafts to bearings, destroying turbine wheels, losing clips, etc) it's almost as expensive to repair as it is to get another JB. By the time they've repaired or replaced it, they could have used a Ball-bearing once, and used it with the right equipment for YEARS. It's just laziness, and no willingness to "buy once, cry once". But In Europe, I know, it's different. That's why PTE had issues penetrating that market. Napier turbos still does and they're in the U.K.
The best place to get them is Taiwan through a Kamak or similar organizations. Taiwan does over 26% of the world's turbocharger compressor/exhaust wheel manufacturing. You just have to find the right sources, and "pay to play"
Not to boast too badly, but I give tons of information all the time here, and 3 other forums. I've got resources that are available, free online, all y'all have to do is look. But, Now that you know where to look, get that information, SAVE IT TO SOMETHING OTHER THAN A DAMN PHONE, and you can become a TURBO BOSS in your own right.

I mean, Balor_Gr, I've even got all of the turbonetics/Garrett oiling information on the same links that you just saw. You just have to see it, save it, use it. Again, you make the simple, complicated, MUCH more than needed.


Turbonetics checklist - Information chart


You're a GOD when it comes to fabrication and your theoretical hypothesis with any engine platform, I give MAD KUDOS to you for it. But your turbo game needs to step up. I think you could be fantastic in turbocharger consultation once you get up to speed. MUCH RESPECT!
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Old 08-03-2018, 03:16 AM
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Default Re: Used Turbo identification (turbonetics)

Originally Posted by TheShodan View Post
I tried, but its best for YOU to get that knowledge, so, I linked the info. The problem is translation / language barrier. Many people over in Europe aren't searching with the technically English terminology, and that can cause problems getting real information
Plus, because turbos switch hands like sandwiches over there due to costs, people are willing to do whatever it takes to salvage a unit, even when it's not reasonably possible.

Yes translation wall is big the more you go deep into individual parts. You cannot imagine how many hours i was searching for the "back plate" term...
Once you go into suspension and transmition parts this get wacky. But i patiently search for knowledge from the web on car stuff since like 2002.




Again, information is there, so is the rebuildability. But because of taxes (VAT , Duties) and shipping, you all don't want to ship to even Spain, France, or the U.K. for repair / rebuild, much less the U.S. You don't have anyone there willing to travel to get the knowledge and still deal with the performance market. (There's no money in it). So, you're stuck with the Chinese stuff. If you just become a beacon for the information for others there, (share what you know, like we used to on here), you'll have better luck and utility.

The problem here is shipping costs most of the times. Once you buy from the retailer the cost to send back is like 2-5 times more. A holset shipped from the crazy guys in finland is like 50 euros.
To send it back at least 150 I have a lot of catalogues from wholesale part sellers or replacement turbo part sellers. Had a TON since im saving everything for at least 10 years but 2 burned SSDs later i lost too muchand i kinda got tired. Im in the thinking of making a turbo webshop selling turbos from individual custom manufacturers like you. I already have a friend that works for like 15 years on the biggest turbo shop thats too busy selling/repairing comercial truck turbos etc. If i find time ill do it cause i love it.


You couldn't be more wrong. Only about 30% are actually internally able to be rebuilt, and that doesn't include compressor and turbine wheel/shaft replacements. The way these people are killing these Journal Bearings as of late, (Fusing shafts to bearings, destroying turbine wheels, losing clips, etc) it's almost as expensive to repair as it is to get another JB. By the time they've repaired or replaced it, they could have used a Ball-bearing once, and used it with the right equipment for YEARS. It's just laziness, and no willingness to "buy once, cry once". But In Europe, I know, it's different. That's why PTE had issues penetrating that market. Napier turbos still does and they're in the U.K.
The best place to get them is Taiwan through a Kamak or similar organizations. Taiwan does over 26% of the world's turbocharger compressor/exhaust wheel manufacturing. You just have to find the right sources, and "pay to play"
Not to boast too badly, but I give tons of information all the time here, and 3 other forums. I've got resources that are available, free online, all y'all have to do is look. But, Now that you know where to look, get that information, SAVE IT TO SOMETHING OTHER THAN A DAMN PHONE, and you can become a TURBO BOSS in your own right.

I mean, Balor_Gr, I've even got all of the turbonetics/Garrett oiling information on the same links that you just saw. You just have to see it, save it, use it. Again, you make the simple, complicated, MUCH more than needed.


Somehow Kamak website disapeared sime time ago. What do you think about MELETT parts?

Turbonetics checklist - Information chart


You're a GOD when it comes to fabrication and your theoretical hypothesis with any engine platform, I give MAD KUDOS to you for it. But your turbo game needs to step up. I think you could be fantastic in turbocharger consultation once you get up to speed. MUCH RESPECT!

Thanks man i appreciate it If it wasnt dam time i would know even more because you know the love is there. From next year things are changing and ill have more time. I thinking of taking an e-university 1-2 year course on thermodynamics/CFD. We will see.
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