doccivic

Does anyone have any idea how this set up would do?
stock h22
type r tranni(need conversion plate)
full msd setup(6al,wires,cap,coil,threestep)
act(pressure plate,flywheel,6 puck)
greedy turbo kit
hondata s300 fully tuned
I would like to know if I could get between 300 and 320whp(safely) on about 12psi of boost using c16?

PrecisionH23a

Why do you want to run a type R tranny? The H series have great tranny's. And yes, you can get 300-320whp on a stock H22a using pump gas if tuned right.

doccivic

I was reading in another forum that the typer would be good because of the short gears.Do you think the h tranni witha diff would be better?

PrecisionH23a

You mean the JDM h22a tranny? Because there is no such thing as a prelude type R transmission... only the type S.

If you run a b18c/5 tranny (usdm/jdm type r) you would need to run an adapter plate as well as other things.

2point2

the msd stuff will add no value to your setup..

look into the peak-boost kits.

championshipwhite93si

yes i think he means ITR tranny since he mentioned yes i need an adapter plate i joke i joke i kid i kid. im with 2point2 on this one, msd will do nothing for you.

4genaccordfreak

if anything you want much longer gearing for boost

much quicker acceleration + longer gearing = easier to control/ much more linear power aswell as a much higher top speed per gear.. rather than using an ITR tranny where 1st, 2nd, 3rd and even 4th gears would be useless with any high hp boost setup.. you'd simply spin each gear because of such a tight gearing combo

rule of thumb

FORCED INDUCTION - - Longer gearing

N/A, All-Motor - - Closer gearing


also, good luck boosting any h22a past 7-10 PSI

it's is common knowledge that the h22a's terrible FRM/NIKASIL sleeves are insanely weak.. and with enough pressure and heat.. you'll crack some piston ring-lands.. with good tuning you might be able to drive for alil while.. but everyone who know's h22a's really well will swear by getting the block sleeved before any serious boost or power is to be made

sewell94

Are you serious, your a shop owner and your saying this??? Come on, i've personally made 425hp on a stock h22 on pump gas, so dont give me none of this the frm sleeves are weak, if anything they are too strong, thats why they tear up MOST aftermarket piston rings. i've built h22's with over 250K miles and they had basically no cylinder wear, and were perfectly round. h22's have problems with boost because most people don't tune them right and you ping the motor just alittle and the ring lands let go, people used to say that you couldn't boost stock b series sleeves also, we all know thats not true. A stock h22 will hold what doccivic wants no problem. SO for passing on bad info.

as for the tranny stuff, the stock h22 tranny gearing works great for most boosted cars, the h2b stuff is nice but $$$.
good luck

championshipwhite93si

oh lord....... wheres the running and hiding in a corner smiley face when you need it?

PrecisionH23a

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 4genaccordfreak &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if anything you want much longer gearing for boost

much quicker acceleration + longer gearing = easier to control/ much more linear power aswell as a much higher top speed per gear.. rather than using an ITR tranny where 1st, 2nd, 3rd and even 4th gears would be useless with any high hp boost setup.. you'd simply spin each gear because of such a tight gearing combo

rule of thumb

FORCED INDUCTION - - Longer gearing

N/A, All-Motor - - Closer gearing


also, good luck boosting any h22a past 7-10 PSI

it's is common knowledge that the h22a's terrible FRM/NIKASIL sleeves are insanely weak.. and with enough pressure and heat.. you'll crack some piston ring-lands.. with good tuning you might be able to drive for alil while.. but everyone who know's h22a's really well will swear by getting the block sleeved before any serious boost or power is to be made</TD></TR></TABLE>

You couldn't be any more wrong.

4genaccordfreak

im not a shop owner.. i used to work there.. but i moved away and havent changed my signiture..

as per your obviously not so intelligent post.. ive seen many boosted B's run 18psi with no tuning.. and they've lasted over a year.. but yet.. no.. boost any h22a past 7-8 psi. ring-lands crack,,..

and your very bold to say that a FIBER RIENFORCED MATRIX sleeve is stronger than an IRON sleeve.. than you need to get off the glue.. because anybody on here will back up that any Bseries because of their sleeves will hold up to the abuse of 10psi or over.. and yeah just because YOU tuned your motor and made god knows whatever number hp.. who cares.. how long do you think it will last for..

yet reading owns you.. considering i DID say that with really good tuning.. you could get away with it for awhile.. but if you wanted to make any decent power and boost.. sleeves should be the first thing on your list.. just because YOU did it.. doesnt mean the orig. poster will be able to..

and i wasnt passing along BAD info.. i was passing along doing it RIGHT or be careful info.. what would a customer have to say if you told him it was totally fine to boost a stock bottom h22a past 8-10 psi.. and blew his motor 2 days later.. now he cant come back and say hey.. you told me i could do this and that.. but now you can say.. well i told you about the tuning.. and the sleeve situation.. yet they took the cheaper route..

so who's giving bad info now?

4genaccordfreak

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PrecisionH23a &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You couldn't be any more wrong.</TD></TR></TABLE>

about which part

even though i could care less about what you random ppl on the internet say.. considering whoever goes on the internet asking ppl for advice is bound to get ppl arguing about whats right and wrong.. trust me.. ive seen boost from all spectrums.. i know what works and what doesnt from personal experience..

whatever you guys have learned or read about on the net.. so be it.. it's the original posters choice of which info to believe or not..

so all im going to say is.. that's the way i learned.. thats the way alot of ppl have learned.. search any of the many H22a & Boost threads.. and you'll come across many instances that ppl have had more than enough problems with the sleeve/piston ring-land problems.. and the fact that their are very few companies that make an FRM compatible piston.. like MAHLE..

so let him boost his h22a to high heaven and see what it can do.. if it fails.. i'll say I TOLD YOU SO.. if he succeeds.. i'll say HE'S LUCKY (considering the amount of problems others around have had)

PrecisionH23a

You worked at a shop, whooptie ******* doo. Shop mechanics with a voiced internet education like yours are a dime a dozen.

I've worked with H series since late 99 and managed to run 280whp (9psi h23a) on my daily driven 4th gen Prelude for over 2 years before I built it to withstand 400hp then 500whp. I've been working with H series engines for longer than you've probably been driving. I have probably 20+ H series builds under my belt that have produced 400whp+ if that helps to add to my internet credibility in your eyes. As for FRM lined cylinder walls, yes the H series engines run these as well as the F20c's. They are not compatible with 'traditional' forged pistons and they are stronger than regular sleeves used in the D's, B's, etc series engines. The problem with stock H series engines in regards to boost is weaker ringlands but you can counter by reducing the peak cylinder pressures (ignition timing) and running a bit richer to reduce the heat transferred to the piston. There is nothing wrong with the FRM lined cylinder walls like you are saying, so take that out of the equation of your theory of 'why H series are bad to boost.' I will also agree that running tons and tons of boost on a stock H series engine is not ideal, but it can be done. Personally, I like to limit them to around 7-9psi. Guys have ran upwards of 500whp with them but the majority of these guys are not using the application for a daily driver.

As far as your transmission replies, that just backs up that you just spit back to others what you read on the internet.

As far as stock sleeve tuning goes, don't even get me started on that topic. Here is a stock K series that I did.



And as far as how long it lasts? It can last a lifetime. You can make great power on stock sleeves but I will agree with you on the fact that sleeving should not be overlooked. With all of the builds that we do, we always have our blocks sleeved.

As said above, I'll tune a stock set-up any day and I have made killer power with stock sleeves in the past. But as we all know **** can happen regardless of how many upgrades you may have. That's an unfortunate part of the game. The customer understands that upon having the engine tuned.

Learned on the net? LOL Yea... let's just disreguard all those years of Mechanical Engineering I have under my belt as well as 7 years of experience with working with the H series engines because you worked at some 'shop.' LOL

Runnerdown

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PrecisionH23a &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

You worked at a shop, whooptie ******* doo. Shop mechanics with a voiced internet education like yours are a dime a dozen.

</TD></TR></TABLE>


LOL!

4genaccordfreak

thats great.. im glad that you feel like whoring out how much knowledge you have.. i also have been working with ALL HONDA's and motors since 2000.. i have gone through my automotive tech courses through college and im on my way to be a licensed Honda technician.. with a background in fabrication, swaps and turbo kits.. .. with all that said.. i dont think i have much less knowledge then you claim you have..

so saying shop mechanics with a voiced internet education that is like mine? i think not... i worked at Dynamic Motorsports doing swaps/builds/turbo kits and welding during my earlier years..

but yet you have agreed with me for alot of things that were mentioned.. i never once said you CANT do this and CANT do that.. i pretty sure if you read everything properly you notice i said or meant that either it's not a good idea.. or look into doing this and this FIRST.. so you dont run into early problems.. and you said it yourself.. that you PERSONALLY like to run your 20+ h22a builds at 7-9 PSI.. which is "what do ya know" right where i said you should keep them at.. before anything drastic must be changed...

as per the transmissions.. that is a proven fact that longer gearing is much more efficient for any FI car PERIOD.. since any forced air motor will displace torque much quicker then any naturally aspirated car which relies on quick gearing to stay in its high power band.. but since boosted motors can roll through rpms much quicker it is more beneficial to reach much higher speeds within the same length of the 1/4. its quite the simple concept as we did it countless times swapping B16/ITR trannies for LS/GSR tranny's for their longer gearing.. this is not something i just read somewhere.. we did this on a weekly basis.. and it's key to make any serious numbers at the track.. why bother if you can put the power to the ground more efficiently than any other way...

oh and where did i ever say you wont make power with them.. here you are going on about woah.. i made this much power with this.. and this much power with this.. who gives a **** if you made 1000 hp with 10 psi of boost.. thats not the point.. my point of the cylinder walls being weak is that there is .5mm of wall thickness before you are faced with the FIBER RIENFORCMENT materials.. most ppl dont even like to leave 3-4mm of sleeve thickness left when doing a proper build.. ..

ive boosted motors that have lasted 2 years.. and boosted motors that have lasted 2 weeks..

im in the same boat as you man.. im not some punk kid that just read a bunch of **** and just repeated it.. this has all been experienced over many years.. like yourself.. so i'd would be tryin to cut me up when the real point of what im saying.. you have just agreed with me for all 3.. except the sleeves being part of the problem..

and im not doubting the power potential of any boosted motor am i.. as ive been in 500whp civics.. and so on..

so i wouldnt be jumping to too many conclusions about someone you've never met in your life.. let alone take it personally that i was attacking you by saying everything you stated you probably read on the net.. take a deep breath because i was generalizing most of the H-T population



Modified by 4genaccordfreak at 9:41 PM 1/2/2007

PrecisionH23a

Automotive tech courses is in no way comparable to an Engineering degree. Any high school drop-out can sleep through an automotive tech course and pass. That's why mechanics your age are a dime a dozen whereas engineer's are in high demand.



Just because you may have worked at a decent shop does not make you God or by any means add to your credibility. I think the majority of the guys on this board can agree that you pretty much sound like an e-mechanic. You honestly sound like this one kid that we have here locally that runs his mouth because he was around when I tuned a 400whp car and overheard some of the things I said. By the way, he is now an elite engine builder and knows everything about tuning internal combustion engines, lol.

First off, you said "also, good luck boosting any h22a past 7-10 PSI"

I must have some pretty damn good luck considering I did this 7 years ago and ran it strong for over 2yrs. I have also done many other stock block H22/H23 set-ups running 7-9psi flawlessly with no problems. You are spreading misinformation from heresay without first hand experience. I don't care if you worked in a shop... fabricating metal and bolting on a turbo manifold is not equal to an engineering degree. That is once again why I can make set-ups like this work and you can't.

I have agreed with you on maybe 2 things which are very small facts. Everything else you have said is just pure bullshit that you've accumulated from heresay. I said that I have done 20+ builds that have made over 400whp. Meaning, those engines were 'built' (pistons, rods, sleeves) and ran more than 7-9psi. I assumed that you realized that because making over 400whp on 7-9psi on a H22a is not going to happen unless you run some sort of rediculously sized turbo. But then again I remember you just read and spit back what you hear on the internet so I'll make sure and be painstakingly clear from now on.

Building a 500whp civic and riding in a 500whp are 2 completely different things. I do both whereas you only ride in them. Thus taking me to your next point.

No, you are not in the same boat as me. I think everyone here can see that clearly. I'm done wasting my time in this thread.

4rc-fed

I went to Devry

championshipwhite93si

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 4genaccordfreak &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">thats great.. im glad that you feel like whoring out how much knowledge you have.. i also have been working with ALL HONDA's and motors since 2000.. i have gone through my automotive tech courses through college and im on my way to be a licensed Honda technician..


Modified by 4genaccordfreak at 9:41 PM 1/2/2007</TD></TR></TABLE>

phssshtt.......honda technician yeah well all know how "honda technicians" are

PrecisionH23A &gt; 4genaccordfreak FTMFW

2point2

You know you're a Canadian when:

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 4genaccordfreak &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> my point of the cylinder walls being weak is balhblahblahblalblhabblablh

if anything you want much longer gearing for boost</TD></TR></TABLE>

stop embarrASSing yourself. There's technical documentation that shows how much stronger FRM is than iron. Honda may have fucked the H22 guys over for compatibility with typical forged pistons buy they certainly knew what they were doing.

Perhaps the Honda engineering team misplaced your resume when they were hiring for the Prelude, NSX and S2000 engine programs?

Revi

championshipwhite93si

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Revi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"></TD></TR></TABLE>

OMFG thats killed me..

yee SERIOUS

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 4rc-fed &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I went to Devry </TD></TR></TABLE>

owned

anyways, i'm as interested as the OP in a h22 turbo setup for a car with a H2B tranny setup. i'm sure most of you honda-tech junkies know about the h2b setup offered by quartersport and evolution now. so let's get back on topic and discuss.

not to thread jack, but i wanted to do a h2b setup as well.

Mykizism

WORF!!! FTMFW!!!!!

doccivic

I did'nt mean to get you guys arguing,but you guys sure as hell sound like you know what your doing.I just want to know if I could pull it off with a stock h,turbo kit and good tuning.Im just looking for around 300 to 350 whp.IF you guys can both agree on a safe setup I'd deff look into doing it.I'm not going to beat the car as adaily driver.Just a money run here and there and some track fun thats it.

Mykizism

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PrecisionH23a &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

No, you are not in the same boat as me. I think everyone here can see that clearly. I'm done wasting my time in this thread.</TD></TR></TABLE>

man anthony, after reading your post to that guy.. even My self esteem went down the drain.. LOL!