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Turbo Selection Options: B16/Spoon Cross-mission Trans for Flat Torqueband

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Old 05-27-2016, 05:13 PM   #26
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The acceleration rate of the 4th gear that is used in the LS transmission with your turbocharger and only capping off at 7800 RPMs, are the real dampers on any of the purpose of what you've envisioned . No wonder you're going in circles.

Your tuner seems to have been very skittish when it came to actually tune a car properly to the maximum rpm potential of the B16. Perhaps it's just because he's not used to having an engine rev that high in its natural state. It's a shame, because I really think that you would have much better success with the torque curve had you allowed the RPMs of the engine to rev higher than what your tuner allowed.

The biggest thing to do is to change the gearing or get rid of that LS transmission in favor of a B16 or GSR. And yes, it makes that big of a difference more so than any turbine housing change for "better spool"
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Old 05-27-2016, 05:15 PM   #27
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Default Torque curve that is earlier flatter

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Originally Posted by Mjalaly View Post
Yep, the state trooper took my gsr tranny when I went to go get my vin because it was missing the serial #. The ls was the only one I could get in a short time.
All the more reason to take the LS transmission out and exchange out the final drive as I stated earlier. If the VIN tag is crucial to success, then that's the best course of action. If not, and you can find another transmission that uses the GSR internals that has the sticker, or tag, or whatever, so that a State Trooper will not take it again, then that's what you should do.

You never mentioned that an LS transmission was used this entire time. We all thought you were using a B16 transmission, and that is exactly why we were all scratching our heads when you are saying that you were not getting any acceleration or good responsiveness.

Transmission type and gearing is just as important (if not more important ) as turbo choice for that engine.
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Old 05-27-2016, 05:18 PM   #28
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Default re: Turbo Selection Options: B16/Spoon Cross-mission Trans for Flat Torqueband

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All the more reason to take the LS transmission out and exchange out the final drive as I stated earlier. If the VIN tag is crucial to success, then that's the best course of action. If not, and you can find another transmission that uses the GSR internals that has the sticker, or tag, or whatever, so that a State Trooper will not take it again, then that's what you should do
The transmission doesn't matter any more now that I have a vin number so I can put whatever I want in the car... it's lame i know and the worst part is that they destroyed the old gsr tranny.
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Old 05-27-2016, 05:20 PM   #29
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Default re: Turbo Selection Options: B16/Spoon Cross-mission Trans for Flat Torqueband

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Originally Posted by Mjalaly View Post
Yeah my build is different
B16 9.4 compression
Spoolin log mani (only thing that fits)

I have a stock flywheel and intake with an ls tranny. Not sure if those make a huge difference. I am also not sure how different our turbos are.

I generally won't suffer the same traction issues with my set up (suspension, etc) as a civic would but I am sure it would be a lot for sure.

I was able to tweek some things and put the air filter right outside the chassis so that may help.
Its most likely a combination of things, (motor,transmission biggest factors) I wouldnt worry about the flywheel mine is also lightened 9lbs. the log should actually make the turbo more responsive I wish I had teh spoolin log myself. I believe.I just did a air intake upgrade and feels much better you will be suprised what those can do(this was after the dyno), I upgraded the tube and filter size and found a much better location.

Definetly a LS transmission is a big defference from my my ITR transmission. I agree with shodan on this however b16s never had midrange torque its just not gonna ever be like a GSR motor in that respect.
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Old 05-27-2016, 05:26 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mjalaly View Post
The transmission doesn't matter any more now that I have a vin number so I can put whatever I want in the car... it's lame i know and the worst part is that they destroyed the old gsr tranny.
I never understood the west coast and their need to destroy things in an effort to justify their version of environmental safety.
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Old 05-27-2016, 05:36 PM   #31
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Default re: Turbo Selection Options: B16/Spoon Cross-mission Trans for Flat Torqueband

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I never understood the west coast and their need to destroy things in an effort to justify their version of environmental safety.
Colodado isnt the wast coast i dont think... because it didnt have the vin, its considered stolen. Had the vin been etched in they could have recovered it. Not my dumb rule. While i am at the tunner tomorrow i can see if he has a tranny. They have tons of stuff.

Heres that intake
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Old 05-27-2016, 05:37 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Mjalaly View Post
Colodado isnt the wast coast i dont think... because it didnt have the vin, its considered stolen. Had the vin bedn etched in the could recovered. Not my dumb rule. While i am at the tunner tomorrow i can see if he has a tranny. They have tins of stuff.
Yep.. it is when they just destroy it.. anything west of Wyoming is the left coast
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Old 05-27-2016, 06:11 PM   #33
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Default re: Turbo Selection Options: B16/Spoon Cross-mission Trans for Flat Torqueband

Nevermind the cams lol. You got bigger concerns lol. Damn you got a ls tranny. If i could post GIFs lol

Picture a line, (point A)b16 trannys being on snap, (pointB) ls trannys being running lambos., for example.

Ls trannys are good for MPGs and top speed lol.

After you change the tranny get a lighter flywheel. NOT TO LIGHT! 12 to 10 maybe, and that mite be pushing it for your chassis
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Old 05-27-2016, 06:56 PM   #34
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Default re: Turbo Selection Options: B16/Spoon Cross-mission Trans for Flat Torqueband

Not finding much for trannys online that arnt over $600. Nothing on the local craigslist either
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Old 05-27-2016, 07:00 PM   #35
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Default re: Turbo Selection Options: B16/Spoon Cross-mission Trans for Flat Torqueband

Yea transmissions are hard to find, and I dont trust local you can easily get screwed. I got mine off HMO but it was very expensive. I think your best bet is shodans recommendation of swapping the final drive
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Old 05-28-2016, 03:18 AM   #36
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Default re: Turbo Selection Options: B16/Spoon Cross-mission Trans for Flat Torqueband

Put a different final in there
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Old 05-28-2016, 06:12 AM   #37
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Default re: Turbo Selection Options: B16/Spoon Cross-mission Trans for Flat Torqueband

Yeah the sticker on the tranny says s80 and I know it's not an LSD.

So which final drive fits? Links? Would a 4.9 be overkill?
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Old 05-28-2016, 07:38 AM   #38
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Default re: Turbo Selection Options: B16/Spoon Cross-mission Trans for Flat Torqueband

Here's a calculator you can use to see what would work best:MFactory® Competition Products - Gear Ratio Calculator
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Old 05-28-2016, 08:22 AM   #39
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Default re: Turbo Selection Options: B16/Spoon Cross-mission Trans for Flat Torqueband

DriVing this morning I got the following

4th gear @ 4krpm = 70mph
4th gear @ 5.5krpm = 90rpm
5th gear @ 4krpm = 90
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Old 05-28-2016, 09:05 AM   #40
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Default re: Turbo Selection Options: B16/Spoon Cross-mission Trans for Flat Torqueband

With my b16 tranny fifth at 70 is 4K. Definitely a big difference from an ls tranny.
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Old 05-28-2016, 01:03 PM   #41
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Default re: Turbo Selection Options: B16/Spoon Cross-mission Trans for Flat Torqueband

Ok so I am going to rant and name names since i am a little pissed now that i am back from the Dyno.

The Import Sports dyno on the first post is so full of **** i don't even know where to start! The car never made anything near 315hp!

What really pisses me off is that they used my car and dyno to go on Facebook and bad mouth another shop. Here is exactly what happened. I needed the car on the dyno to retune and fix the boost cut issue and PFISpeed was booked... that's it end of story there. What Import Sports did was charge me $350 and waste 5hours of my day to de-power (originally had 240hp) my car and not even fix the boost cut issue!

So how do i know they did a shitty tune?! PFISpeed used their map (I save the maps after each dyno for safe keeping so i know it was not altered in anyway) and did a dyno pull. What did it show? It was very rich and produced 150hp! (see attached dyno) No where near 315hp. So PFISpeed was nice enough to quickly retune the car and after a bit it produced 260hp on 12lbs of boost which seems more inline with the turbo, alt, etc. Its also close to the original dyno from PFISpeed (which says winpep7 on it)

Well some could say that maybe the dynos are just different. Well when i drove the car after tuning, there was a very big difference between fast and lightning fast which is where it is at now. The ******* car almost killed me when i spooled up the turbo on the way home (i wasn't expecting that).

So, with my advance engineering skills, I can see this two ways. Either PFISpeed is seriously under estimating numbers (but i doubt that) or Import sports fudged the numbers after having the car on the dyno for 5hrs. I tend to think the latter is true unless someone has a better argument.

See what kind of **** i am dealing with here?

I havent put this into virtual dyno to figure out how close it is but i attached the data here
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-x...ew?usp=sharing

So never going back to import sports and sticking with PFISpeed

Also i dont generally put stickers on my car but PFISpeed will get one and SpeedTrapp will too (once the showden sends me his logo or a stciker )

On the tranny thing, PFI is going to look to see if they can find a b16 tranny to put in the car while i am out of the county which will probably be cheaper than than a new FD and install.
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Old 05-28-2016, 01:12 PM   #42
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Default re: Turbo Selection Options: B16/Spoon Cross-mission Trans for Flat Torqueband

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Originally Posted by Mjalaly View Post
What Import Sports did was charge me $350 and waste 5hours of my day to de-power (originally had 240hp) my car and not even fix the boost cut issue!
Honestly dynos suck for configuring BBG, Your turbo will spool quicker on the street so its hard to do so you will often hit boostcut, especially when trying to set it to spool quicker. I had the same issue, I do my BBG myself now. I dont like the way my tuner does it anyway too much wheelspin which I dont exactly blame him for its kinda of a preference thing I think
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Old 05-28-2016, 01:24 PM   #43
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Default re: Turbo Selection Options: B16/Spoon Cross-mission Trans for Flat Torqueband

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Honestly dynos suck for configuring BBG, Your turbo will spool quicker on the street so its hard to do so you will often hit boostcut, especially when trying to set it to spool quicker. I had the same issue, I do my BBG myself now. I dont like the way my tuner does it anyway too much wheelspin which I dont exactly blame him for its kinda of a preference thing I think
i dont use boost by gear.
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Old 05-28-2016, 01:31 PM   #44
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Default re: Turbo Selection Options: B16/Spoon Cross-mission Trans for Flat Torqueband

what turbo are you using? 315HP does not sound that unreasonable depending on your setup, but if your saying that the 240HP feels faster then the 315HP tune. I cannot disagree with you whatsoever that does sound kinda shady...at the end of the day the dyno is just a tool and numbers dont matter its all about what it feels like on the street
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Old 05-28-2016, 02:19 PM   #45
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Ah... wow. . I love low-reading Mustang dyno numbers. Soooo much more realistic
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Old 05-28-2016, 02:38 PM   #46
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Default re: Turbo Selection Options: B16/Spoon Cross-mission Trans for Flat Torqueband

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what turbo are you using? 315HP does not sound that unreasonable depending on your setup, but if your saying that the 240HP feels faster then the 315HP tune. I cannot disagree with you whatsoever that does sound kinda shady...at the end of the day the dyno is just a tool and numbers dont matter its all about what it feels like on the street
Gt3251b turbo.

Yeah the 260 feels way faster. Unfortunately, the dyno is the only good way to see what the engine is doing power wise. I dropped the data into virtual dyno and go some crazy numbers...
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Old 05-28-2016, 02:53 PM   #47
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Default re: Turbo Selection Options: B16/Spoon Cross-mission Trans for Flat Torqueband

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Originally Posted by Mjalaly View Post
Gt3251b turbo.

Yeah the 260 feels way faster. Unfortunately, the dyno is the only good way to see what the engine is doing power wise. I dropped the data into virtual dyno and go some crazy numbers...
Haha just did the same thing I dont get it, it told me I had like 800HP, I think I need a cleaner pull the only one I had the pull starts at like 4k RPM.


Well shodan knows the capability of that particular turbo as it relates to boost pressures better then anyone, 315 @ 12 psi seems a little high and 240HP seems low, but again different dynos read differently, I guess Elevation is a VERY large factor from what I am seeing, Guess IM lucky that I am pretty damn close to sea level

UPDATE: you may want to try calibrating your TPS both with a multimeter and also with the hondata software, looking at that log it did not go past 94%

Last edited by 2kdrift; 05-28-2016 at 04:10 PM. Reason: update
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Old 05-29-2016, 08:16 AM   #48
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Default re: Turbo Selection Options: B16/Spoon Cross-mission Trans for Flat Torqueband

Make sure the max is set over 100%. Like 101 or 102%
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Old 06-03-2016, 05:09 AM   #49
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Default re: Turbo Selection Options: B16/Spoon Cross-mission Trans for Flat Torqueband

My tuner said he might be able to get a Spoon Road Race transmission for a "reasonable" price. Any know anything about these transmissions or gear sets?

the closet i could find to anything that mentioned ratios was this

Brand: Spoon Sports
Product: Cross Mission Gear Set 1-5
Part Num: 23000-EG6-100

SPECIFICATIONS:
Gear Ratio:
- 1st gear: 2.533 (OEM 3.231)
- 2nd gear: 1.944 (OEM 2.105)
- 3rd gear: 1.591 (OEM 1.458)
- 4th gear: 1.280 (OEM 1.103)
- 5th gear: 1.033 (OEM 0.848)

PRODUCT NOTES:
- Can be used with stock (4.4) final gear.
- DC2 '98Spec: Require to be equipped with a standard or Spoon Final Gear (4.4).

COMPATIBILITY NOTES:
- DB8, DC2: for Type-R Models.
- DB8: not compatible with '98Spec models.
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Old 06-03-2016, 05:20 AM   #50
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Default re: Turbo Selection Options: B16/Spoon Cross-mission Trans for Flat Torqueband

That torque curve looks wayyy better
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